choosing yourself

The Mental Load, Modern Motherhood & Drama That Sent Someone Packing — with Paige Connell

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Ever wonder what happens when a mother-in-law goes full wedding meltdown mode? 

This episode dives into an unforgettable wedding story where chaos, drama, and unexpected twists steal the spotlight. From limo mix-ups and cross necklace demands to elopements and courthouse ceremonies, these real-life tales prove weddings rarely go as planned.

Listen as Christa and Paige navigate fiery family dynamics, outrageous demands, and the art of keeping your day stress-free despite unpredictable relatives.

Whether it’s dodging drama or finding joy in the unexpected, these stories remind us that love, and a little patience, always wins.

Join me on Patreon and get bonus content every month! 

Episode Chapter Markers

00:00 Introduction

01:39 Viral TikTok and Childcare Costs

04:10 Mission and Content Focus

06:09 Gender Equity and Mental Load

19:09 Wedding Hot Takes and Rapid Fire

24:59 Reading the Wedding Story

25:13 Mother-in-Law’s Wedding Day Meltdown

30:05 Deciding to Elope

31:47 Courthouse Wedding Drama

38:01 Reflections on Weddings and Relationships

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

  • The Guest List War – How a simple seating decision spiraled into a full family fight.
  • Bridesmaid Betrayal – The shocking move the bridesmaid made behind her back.
  • Mother-in-Law Overreach – The bold demands that crossed every line.
  • Setting Boundaries Under Fire – The moment the bride decided to stand her ground.
  • Choosing Peace Over People-Pleasing – Why walking away from tradition saved her sanity.
  • The Fallout After the Wedding – The lasting impact of these choices on family relationships.
  • What Paige Would Do Differently – Her biggest takeaway for anyone planning a wedding.

Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode

  • “Sometimes the ‘happiest day of your life’ is just the most expensive therapy session.” – Christa Innis
  • “Weddings don’t make people crazy, they just turn up the volume on who they already are.” – Christa Innis
  • “Know your audience and know what you and your partner want ultimately.” – Christa Innis
  • “Family drama doesn’t magically RSVP ‘no’ to your wedding.” – Christa Innis
  • “If someone’s love for you hinges on an invite, it’s not love, it’s leverage.” – Christa Innis
  • “If you haven’t been a parent to young children in a very long time, you don’t know the realities of the cost.” – Paige Connell
  • “My goal with that conversation is to help women articulate what’s happening in their lives so they can better process that with their partner, find equity at home, and hopefully in the workplace as well.” – Paige Connell
  • “We have this narrative of the work that men do outside of the home being really important, if not more important than the work their partner does at home.” – Paige Connell
  • “Whenever women do something that remotely prioritizes themselves, we position it as selfish.” – Paige Connell
  • “Peace was my real wedding gift to myself.” – Paige Connell

About Paige:

Paige is a working mother of four who shares relatable content on TikTok and Instagram, highlighting the everyday experiences of women balancing motherhood, careers, and relationships. Known for her candid insights on the mental load of motherhood and the challenges of creating equity at home and work, Paige’s content resonates with millions. She also advocates for affordable childcare, paid leave, and reproductive rights, sparking important conversations about what families need to thrive. Her impactful voice and relatable storytelling have led to features in Scary Mommy, The Today Show, Good Morning America, and more.

Follow Paige Connell:

Join the Drama with Christa Innis:

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Follow us on social media for updates and sneak peeks at upcoming episodes. Your stories inspire the drama, the laughs, and the lessons we love to share!

A Team Dklutr Production

Blog Transcript:

Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Christa Innis: Hi Paige. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. I’m so excited to talk to you. I was just saying before we started recording that I think I first saw you on, I wanna say it was probably TikTok or something and you stitched Dave Ramsey and I love like this like feminist movement where we were just calling out people that maybe say things that are a little harmful to, especially when we talk about moms and the mother load. And I always tend to like just jump right in. 

Paige Connell on the Childcare Crisis and Gender Equity

But can we talk a little bit about what that was? I kinda wanna talk about your platform and how that’s kind of like grown over the years and what you kind of focus on?

Paige Connell: Yeah, sure. So that video in particular was right up my alley because I talk a lot about childcare and he was talking about the cost of childcare.

And so for context, I create content and I started out talking about just being a working mother and. part of that conversation is logistics. How do I make it work? How much do I pay for daycare? What does our schedule look like? Just all of those things. And I was just sharing my lived experience of motherhood, and the very first time I went viral on TikTok was talking about how much I pay for daycare, because people were just astonished at how expensive it is, and, didn’t even believe me transparently. A lot of people were like, that’s not real. And so I spend a lot of time bringing awareness to the childcare crisis because this is something that is happening to most people in our country, like most people and parents are experiencing the high cost of childcare and the impacts of that.

And so. When I saw the video of Dave Ramsey saying $25,000 a year for childcare, like, that’s not real. I felt like I had to respond because it is very real. It is the lived experience of many, many families, and for me, he’s a financial expert. He should understand the finances of the people he’s speaking to and the fact that this is the reality for most people in our country.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think when. You get to a certain, I don’t know, I would say platform of his, He can’t really relate to the common person, the common family. and so I feel like, I feel like your content is so necessary because so many moms might go in and see something like this, and it’s like, oh wait, I shouldn’t be paying this. Or like, this isn’t normal, but like we can’t relate to someone like that, that actually is not in it. Right.

Paige Connell:  Totally. Yeah. I think first and foremost, I think he’s of a different generation, and so childcare looks different today than it did even 10 years ago. And so if you haven’t been a parent to young children in a very long time, you don’t know the realities of the cost, right?

So I think in that way he’s out of touch. But it is his job to be in touch with what the average experience is of parents in our country, especially if he’s giving out financial advice, but I also think just in general, Dave has a very specific idea of what it should look like, right? He had a stay at home partner. He personally likes that, right? Like that idea of women providing that childcare, or at least he insinuates that in some of his content. And, yeah. You know, I just think it’s, he has a very specific platform and form of advice that he gives, and I just felt like in that instance, you know, I’m not a financial expert. I don’t pretend to be, but in that instance, he was saying something that I felt like was so outlandish and out of touch that it had to be addressed in some way.

Christa Innis: So I know I kinda jumped the gun right into like that conversation that I saw. But can you tell everyone a little bit more about what you post about on your page, your content, and what you feel your mission has become, with your posting?

Paige Connell: Sure. So yeah, I talk a lot about being a working mother and the realities of what modern marriage and motherhood look like specifically for women. I will say my following on all platforms is 99% women, sometimes 98. You know, it fluctuates. But it’s mostly women because my content for them is relatable and it’s something that they understand and see themselves in.

I would say the thing that most people know me for is speaking about the mental load specifically as it relates to motherhood, but I speak about it in general as well. And my goal with that conversation is to help women articulate what’s happening in their lives so they can better process that with their partner, find equity at home, and hopefully in the workplace as well.

And as part of that mission, I also talk about systemic things like lack of pay, parental leave, lack of affordable childcare, the motherhood penalty in the workplace. So my overarching goal is to help women advocate for gender equity in all facets of life. So not, being the default parent by default, right?

All of these things that I think as a society have been very normal for very long, but are leading women to feel burnt out and exhausted, and I do that through. Sharing my own experience, but also just thought leadership on these topics in general.

Christa Innis:  Yeah, I love that. It’s so powerful and it’s funny, I mention it every time and time again, but like before doing all of this, I worked for a mommy brand and ironically it was before I had my daughter and so but with that, it was, I heard firsthand stories from moms, like struggling to go back to work, having to go back to work after six weeks or unpaid leave. And when I started kinda like digging into it, I was like, this is outrageous. Like it’s, we’re in a country where they want us to have more kids, but then there’s no support when you do have those kids.

Why Paid Parental Leave and Shared Care Matter

So what do you think are the biggest like things like work. I mean, workplaces is one thing. What can workplaces do? What can we do as a society to kind of like raise awareness to all this stuff?

Paige Connell: I think talking about it first and foremost is really important, bringing these topics up. You know, the things I’ve mentioned, childcare, paid parental leave. We often view these as women’s issues, when in reality they’re a family issue. They should be impacting anyone who is a parent, not just women, but women are the ones that disproportionately take on this work, right? So if there’s no childcare, who stays home?

Christa Innis: Typically, mom.

Paige Connell: Who adjust their career? Typically, mom. 

Right. And so that’s just a societal expectation. And then sometimes people will point to the fact that, well, oh, the husband makes more money. And that just points the wage gap, right? It’s just like, it’s this kinda like chicken and egg thing, right? We’re struggling at home, we’re struggling in the workplace, and they’re really tied together.

And so I think on an individual level. I like to tell people this is not a failure. Like if you’ve ended up in a position where you’re burnt out and exhausted and you’re struggling with the mental load and your career has taken a hit due to childcare or whatever it might be. You’re not alone in that.

That’s not a personal failure, that’s a systemic failure across the board. But also there’s certain things that are within our control that we can do. And so we can’t fix all the systems at one time, but we can do some things, which is, for example, if your husband has access to paid parental leave, he should be taking it.

So many men don’t. So many men have access and they don’t take it, and they don’t take it because they’re afraid it’s gonna hurt their career, which ultimately just hurts women’s careers more and hurts their partners and their baby and all of the things. And so, we need men to be doing that. We need, policies that support parents in the workplace.

So adequate sick time, adequate paid leave, flexible work schedules. We need to stop these return to office mandates that disproportionately impact women, right? Like there’s all these things, but also within our homes. One of the reasons I suggest paid parental leave not suggest I strongly encourage, is because when men take it, they’re more likely to carry that mental load with their partner from the beginning and.

The mental load disparity happens very, very early on, typically even before you have kids. I think about, when my husband and I were in our twenties and we were going to a million weddings, I always bought the gift and the card and booked the hotel and coordinated all the things, and he was there, but I was coordinating it, right?

Like I carried that mental load. It wasn’t super heavy until we had kids, and so being aware of these dynamics in advance and talking about them with your partner, putting systems in place to avoid one person carrying too much, that’s something we can do, and there’s tools to do that.

Christa Innis: I love that. Yeah. I feel like it’s such an important conversation that a lot of families don’t, either don’t have or don’t know they should or can have them because it’s just, that’s the way it was when I grew up.

Or my dad went to work, my mom was home. So I just thought that’s how it went. And I think, like I said, with working at the mom brand, I was able to see like. I don’t want that when I go through postpartum, I need my part. It was like, have your partner support you, get your partner involved in the process.

Because so many women would like tell me like, oh, my husband wasn’t even in the room when I gave birth. Or he went right back to work the next day. Yeah. And even if they had a choice to stay home, they’re like, oh, well I gotta work. And it’s just like, you don’t realize if you are setting your family up for failure if you don’t take that time as a partner, to the one that gave birth, right? And so I feel like it’s such an interesting conversation because that push and pull between work and sticking up for your family essentially.

Paige Connell: Yeah. And I think, you know, it’s the narrative, right?

We’ve put a real premium in our country on men being providers and doing the paid work and women doing the unpaid care work at home. And so even like the overnight feedings I’ve said on social media, like, dad should be doing some of those, even if they’re partners breastfeeding, like they can change the diaper, they can soothe the baby. And men are like, well, I have work tomorrow. It’s like, she’s gonna be up tomorrow too. Okay. Like, and doing something incredibly important, which is caring for your newborn. And we have this narrative of this work that men do outside of the home being really important, if not more important than the work their partner does at home.

And so I really think we should push back on that. And I do think most men wanna be good dads. They wanna be good partners. But to your point, like as a society and, kind of what’s been modeled for us just doesn’t show us what that looks like.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. I was talking to someone the other day and they were asking like, oh, how was your, postpartum?

And I realized, I’m like. Obviously I had a lot of challenges and stuff, but I think because like my husband at the time, like where he was working at the time, he got like two weeks off. I was like, this is what it’s gonna be like when I’m, postpartum. Like, I’m gonna need you to help with this. And like, I remember just being responsible for like breastfeeding.

I was like, other than that, he did everything else or we were able to split other things. I would hear of all these moms like having like postpartum depression and obviously that’s so nuanced. There’s so many reasons why women go through that. Right? Totally. But I feel like a lot of it could be helped with a supportive partner or supportive workplaces because a lot of times these women are stressed about going back to work in a few weeks and they’re not getting paid and they have to get their child in daycare and, that’s a lot.

Paige Connell:There’s a lot. you even mentioned daycare. Women are typically the ones finding childcare, and that’s really hard to do. And so yeah, it’s not as simple as just being home, taking care of a sleeping baby. You know, it, it’s pretty complex what’s going on. I’m glad to hear that you had the support that you need.

I mean, similar to my husband had. Not a lot of time with our first three kids. He had no time. and then with our fourth, he had four weeks and it was night and day experience for us. Right. It was a vastly different experience for me. and I think that’s so important. I wish everyone had that.

Christa Innis: I know.

It’s like, imagine how it would be if men were like forced, like, you have to be home during these 2, 3, 4 weeks, whatever that looks like. And just support  women.

Paige Connell: Yeah. I mean, some countries do that. They mandate it, that men have to take it, and there’s like specific rules around how that looks. And so yeah, I think unfortunately in order to get men to do it, oftentimes it has to be mandated.

But I do think, more and more men are doing it, but we still need to see that improve across the board and. There’s data to show that, the work that women are doing and the mental, they’re caring it leads to real impact, mental, emotional, physical tolls on women, and that has a long-term impact on their lives and their well-being.

And so if we care about that, if we care about mothers as much as we say we do, then we should prioritize their care.

The Double Standards That Keep Women Carrying the Load

Christa Innis: Yeah. So I bet with like posting this kind of content, I mean, I see it ’cause I follow a lot of content about like talking about, inequality with women or, women empowerment.

There’s always the haters in the comments. What do you think the most, like, not necessarily like hate, comment, or like argument against what you have to say, or, you know, negative comments that people will comment and how do you kind of handle that?

Paige Connell: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people say couple things, that I hate men, which I don’t, I don’t hate men.

I just want men to show up in a more meaningful way and I think most of them want to do that, which I know not everybody believes that like I actually am a person on the internet who says, like, I actually think most dads wanna be good people and good parents. they’re not doing it necessarily, but I think they want to.

And so it’s worth trying to get them there. But most people say, I hate men, or, that my husband must hate me. Those are two top comments, because I’ve talked about my own experience in marriage and motherhood with my partner and what that journey’s been like. And so, this mostly comes from men.

Obviously it’s not coming from women. I would say the vast majority of women. Feel understood or at least relate to something that I’m saying, even if not everything. But those tend to be the top comments, which is because I’m pushing for gender equity that yeah I don’t like men and then men in my life don’t like me.

Mm.

Christa Innis: I feel like too, it’s like people that say that kind of thing, in their family. It’s like, if it’s not, broke, don’t fix it kind of thing. Yeah. It works for them, but does it actually work for them? Maybe it works for them as the male partner, but have they actually sat down with their partner and asked, does this work for you?

But I think they are probably afraid to ask that question because they don’t wanna get the push back or have to carry more of that mental load.

Paige Connell: Yeah, I think it’s, layered. I think it depends on the person, obviously. And. one I hear from women in their sixties, seventies, all the time who are like, I wish I’d had this when I was younger.

’cause I just suffered through it. And I spent 40 years of my life catering to somebody who never helped me at all. And I hear that constantly. And then I’m lucky enough to hear from young women who are learning about what they do and don’t want in a relationship. But I think for men, some of it’s, you know, what did I see growing up? What did my dad do? What did my mom do? I think to your point of happiness, one of the comments that I see often, which is always so surprising to me, and I think comes from a very specific subset of men, is that men will sacrifice their happiness for their family, and women will sacrifice their family for their happiness.

So insinuating that women who expect more from their partner or choose divorce because they’re unhappy, are choosing their own happiness above their families, and men are willing to suffer for their families. and it’s this very specific talking point that I find so interesting. But I think it’s, again, trying to position women in this bad light the same way we do as single moms.

Single moms are bad. Where are the dads? Right? Like the moms are there. Like we talk about that. Like the impact that being raised by a single mother has. And we never say like, okay, the impact of a father being absent has, right? Like, we never talk about that. So I think it’s a branding thing, but essentially like.

Whenever women do something that remotely prioritizes themselves, we position it as selfish. When women have a career, they’re selfish, right? They’re, looking to make a ton of money. They’re letting somebody else raise their kid. When men do it, they’re providers, they’re family men, right? They’re putting food in the table.

We vary different narratives for men and women in our society. So much so that. We would never call a mom a hands-on mom or a present mom. Mm-hmm. But like so many women will be like, I have the best husband. He’s such a present dad. He is so hands-on. It’s like, yeah, you, kind of have to be hands-on with the toddler.

Like there’s no other version of parenthood. Right. For women. And so it’s just so interesting. I think some of it is just, yeah, the status quo, what we’re used to, and then other parts of it are kind of like, yeah, what we think about men and women at their time and whose time we truly value.

Christa Innis: That’s such a good point.

Yeah. It’s like I’ve seen videos about where it’s like a mom could be juggling like a few kids at the store and they just, they’re like, that’s a mom. The kid might be like throwing a tantrum or something and they’re just like, okay, whatever. She’s doing her mom thing. But if a dad does it, he’s such a good dad.

Paige Connell: The best dad.

Christa Innis: She’s such a good dad. And I remember like people will say like stuff about my husband, they’ll be like, oh, he changes the diapers. Oh, he takes her places by her himself. I’m like. Well, he’s her father. Like why wouldn’t he? Yeah. But I feel like it’s also generational, like, at least my parents’ generation, I feel like a lot of times it was Stay at home mom, so she was with the kids a lot, the dad was at work and you know, you saw them for dinner time the older generations are like, what’s happening here? Like, something’s shifting.

Paige Connell: Totally. I think things are shifting. I think in the millennial generation you’re seeing more egalitarian relationships, which is amazing. you’re seeing a little bit more polarization in the younger generations between men and women and what they expect from one another.

And I think. There’s many reasons for that, but it is interesting how different millennial men are compared to their fathers. And I think that’s a good thing. I think it’s a good thing, but it doesn’t come without push back. obviously, when you’re talking about these, deeply ingrained expectations of men and women, when you push back on those people, it gets uncomfortable.

Christa Innis: Yeah, definitely. it’s for the better good of, everyone. For sure. I agree. what’s your message for anyone listening that. Maybe is, struggling with the mental load right now and doesn’t kind of know the first steps to take either with their partner or their family or their work.

Paige Connell: So with the mental load in particular, I often say the first thing you have to do is just start to understand what it is. I think oftentimes women feel incredibly burnt out and exhausted and they feel like they’re kind of on this hamster wheel they can never get off of. They have this ongoing running to do list that’s always there and never shorter. And they can’t articulate that, right? Like when their partner says What’s wrong, they’re just like, I don’t even know. There’s a million things I could tell you. A million things that I’m stressed out about right now. Right? And so first and foremost, I suggest people familiarize themselves with the terms and what’s actually playing into the mental load.

And so one way to do that is to, we say, make the invisible visible, write things down every thought that pops into your brain, which is like, I have to pay, the school for a raffle basket. My kids need cash ’cause they’re going to the beach tomorrow with camp. I have all these reminders on my phone and I think a really important way to do this is just write everything down.

For a week, two weeks, just write it all down and look at it and you’ll see, you’ll start to see what that mental load looks like. What are the things that are weighing you down? What’s stressing you out the most? What’s causing the most tension? Where do you think your partner can support you?

Where do you feel like you’re strong? being able to look at it in a really concrete way. I use a spreadsheet, I offer this to people, whoever wants it, it’s part of my free guide, but I have a spreadsheet and it just lists a bunch of tasks that most families do. It’s from the book Fair Play. E Rodsky created this game, which is a really great way to make that invisible labor visible.

Doing that is so helpful just for you as a person to be able to see it and say like, okay, this is why I’m tired, like this is why I’m stressed out. and then from there. You can think about having a conversation with your partner, but I often tell women like, sometimes you’re not ready for a conversation with your partner and you just need to be able to say it to your therapist or say it to your best friend and start to articulate what you’re feeling.

And then once you’ve been able to do that, then you can start to have the hard conversations of, okay, well what does it look like for us to change this?

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. I love that. Saying it out loud. ’cause I feel like a lot of times, like as women, we like keep things in until like, yeah. Kind of builds up a little bit and then it’s like you can’t take it anymore.

So, I love that, getting it outside, saying it to a therapist, a friend, and kind of piggybacking off of that. Okay, let’s get into, because I know everyone loves the crazy stories Wedding Hot takes. Let’s get into some different hot takes for weddings. if as we’re kind of talking, you have like any wild wedding stories or wanna share anything, you know, don’t, no pressure to share anything personal if you don’t want to. But, okay. These are hot takes that people sent to me. Here’s what they said. It’s okay to skip traditions that don’t resonate with you, including the white dress.

Paige Connell: Yeah. Why not? My daughter’s daycare teacher just got married and she wore a pink dress, and my daughters are all about it. They’re like, that was beautiful. It was like a baby, like very light, light pink. But they, like a four and 3-year-old are obsessed.

Christa Innis: Yeah. So I love that like old princess dress. I know. I feel like there’s so many things that we do with weddings or whatever it else It is, and we don’t like ask why.

We’re just like, let’s just do it. Yeah. Yeah. It says you don’t owe anyone a plus one, especially if they’ve never met the one. Mm, yeah.

 Paige Connell:  Yeah. There’s a weird expectation that you have to give people a plus one. And I think, going back to the finances talk from the beginning, it’s like, it’s expensive to have a wedding and I’m paying for your plus one to be here.

And I think depending on what, who’s funding it, right? Like having that understanding, be able to understand, especially if they’re your close friends, like. I can’t give everybody a plus one, and I think that should be okay. I think context matters if you’re inviting. A coworker who knows no one and you give them no plus one.

I actually think that’s probably pretty uncomfortable for them. If you’re inviting your cousin who has 20 other cousins at the wedding, they don’t need a plus one.

Christa Innis: Right? Yeah. Like your 16-year-old cousin that just started dating someone. I think they can come with their parents like that. That’s fine.

Yeah. I find this interesting thing when I post about either, like if I do a skit about plus ones or kids being invited or something like that. People have this, they either are like, yes, I agree. Like no one needs, you don’t owe anyone an invite. Right? The other side of people are like, just say you’re broke if you’re poor, don’t have a wedding.

I’ve had some people say that and I’m like, just because they’re not inviting the whole world and then some, doesn’t mean they don’t have money or they’re broke. There’s just everything’s nuanced. Right? And it’s just like, I don’t know.

Paige Connell: Yeah. It also reminds me of, like, when I talk about childcare, people will say, well, don’t have kids if you can’t afford ’em.

And it’s like, okay, but I am having kids that I can afford. It doesn’t mean that it’s not expensive. people are having weddings that they can afford. It just means they can’t invite your plus one. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s very, to me, it’s very like classicist to be, like, to say, you’re broke. It’s like everybody’s having the wedding that they can afford.

That they, they can afford or that’s within their budget. And if you don’t like it, then don’t attend. Right. Then don’t go. But I don’t think we should judge anybody for the scale of their wedding or how many people they can invite or how expensive it is, because at the end of the day, you know, we’re all living in this world and this economy together.

Right. We all have different means. I think it’s a very strange take to have,

find that so.

Christa Innis: Honestly. Yeah. It’s so interesting. Yeah. That’s such a good point too about the kids comment, because you hear that all the time and it’s like. One, it’s like if just because someone has a budget or they’re like, oh, this is expensive, or we can’t afford to do this because blank, it doesn’t mean like they made a poor choice and why are we why are we putting someone down because of their life? And I don’t know.

Paige Connell: Yeah, it’s also a very privileged take, right? Like we’re all like one bad medical disaster or layoff away from struggling financially like most people in this country. And so if you have that perspective, you can understand that some people maybe aren’t prioritizing plus ones at their wedding because they’re saving for a down payment on a house.

And so they’re not broke. They just have different priorities to you, and that’s okay. But I do think it’s a pretty privilege take to have that. Like, just, just say you’re broke side of it.

Christa Innis: It’s so people are, people are funny in the comments about honeymoon stuff or paying like, um, gifting at a wedding.

All these kind of things that are just like, just do what you can afford. People are more happy to have you be there. It’s like, yeah. Very interesting. 

Rapid-Fire Wedding Chaos: The “Would You Rather” Edition

Okay. To kind of kick off a little bit more, and before we get to the wedding story, this is rapid fire. This is kinda like just a new little wedding chaos, rapid, rapid fire thing. Okay. Um, would you rather have your childhood nemesis in your bridal party or your partner’s ex sitting front row?

Paige Connell: Partner’s ex.

Christa Innis:  Okay. Would you rather have the fire alarms go off during your vows or your mic cut out mid speech?

Paige Connell: Mic.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I feel like that happens at like a lot of the weddings, anyway.

Paige Connell: I was gonna say, I, and I’ve been at a wedding where the fire alarm went off. It wasn’t during the vows, but we had to evacuate for a while.

Christa Innis: Oh gosh. I just heard a story where the fire alarm went off. And they all had to go off into the parking lot and they ended up just like the DJ just played music out there and they like opened up a bar outside.

They’re like, we couldn’t afford wait for hours. And I was like, I love that. I love that turn of events where you just make the best of it.

Paige Connell: It’s memorable. Yeah, exactly.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Everyone will always talk about that wedding. Um, would you rather have your cake be made of styrofoam for display or taste like cardboard?

Paige Connell: Styrofoam.

Christa Innis: Would you rather your hairstylist ghost you or your makeup artist show up two hours late.

Paige Connell: Hairstylist ghost me.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Um, would you rather accidentally post your private vows on Instagram or text them to your ex? These are wild.

Paige Connell: Instagram. I’ve said worse on Instagram for sure.

Christa Innis: Right. It’s like at this point someone was asking like how I post content and I’m like, once you kind of start, you’re kind of like, we’re all on this floating rock together.

Like once you Yeah. It’s like once you get it out there, you’re like, I don’t care. Like these sting sometimes still, but for the most part, I’m just like, it feels kind of like, I dunno if you’re ever like scrolling, like TikTok, do you feel like we’re just like, all like on a talent show and we’re all just kinda like posting like different things and like  it kinda just rolls past you after a while.

The Mother-in-Law Who Turned Two Weddings Into a Battlefield

Okay. Let’s get into this week’s wedding submission. As, as always, um, people just send me different stories to react, to give advice or. I guess it’s kind of, I was gonna say unsolicited, but they sent it so I guess it’s solicited. Um, so yeah, feel free to stop me at any time or we can add little side stories. So let’s see. I have not read it, so let’s see how it goes.

Okay. She says, or they say, so this is a long story. It started when my brother-in-law got married a few months before our wedding. My mother-in-law insisted on paying for the reception. The couple offered to chip in because they wanted to include the bride’s grandparents.

My mother-in-law said it was fine and that she would handle everything. Okay. On the day of the wedding, she was incredibly sweet, thanking everyone for coming. But as soon as the guests, including the couple left and the bill came, she completely flipped out. Mind you, this was a low key reception, a buffet at a buffet style restaurant.

My husband tried to calm her down and even covered, offered to cover the cost for the bride’s grandparents, but she refused and said they were all ungrateful. She had also insisted on paying for the limo the bride took to the church. It was chaotic getting ready that day. There were three limos outside and the drivers were directing us where to go.

We even got into one limo and were told it was the wrong one, so we had to switch. At the time, I had a year and a half old daughter. She wasn’t in the wedding, so my mother-in-law offered to watch her until the ceremony, after the ceremony. Anyway, I’m in the limo with the bridesmaids and the flower girl.

We arrive at the church and there’s my mother-in-law, absolutely fuming. Apparently the limo we rode in was meant for the bride to be fair. The only difference was the color. She had my daughter on her hip and was walking up the steps. When I saw the bride pulling up in the other limo, she practically threw my daughter at me and I tripped trying to catch her so she wouldn’t fall.

My gosh. Okay. Then she walked over to the bride’s limo. Tried to hand her a cross necklace to wear. The bride politely thanked her, but explained she was wearing her late grandmother’s necklace who passed just a few months before. That must have been the last straw. She reached into the window, window of the limo and tried to pull the bride out, screaming and cussing that she didn’t deserve her son.

Oh, wow. Okay. That’s wild. Um, and then like nothing had happened, she walked back to the steps and tried to take my daughter again. I told her absolutely not that I was going to walk down the aisle with her. I had already cleared it with the groom who was in the back of the church sobbing. The bride’s parents asked her to leave, but she said, “You’ll have to call the cops. I’m not leaving without seeing my son get married.”

Imagine saying that, and then demanding to be there for the wedding.

Paige Connell: No, that’s crazy. I mean, well, is that it or is there more?

Christa Innis: There’s more. Okay. It’s already pretty wild. There’s a, yeah, like another page. Okay. Oh gosh. Like it’s, it’s funny, like these stories, like sometimes they seem like out of left field, so I don’t, ’cause you know, you don’t really get like the before. As sometimes you get some of this stuff, but then all of a sudden it’s just like this crazy like day that just like goes wild. Um, okay sure enough, the cops came and escorted her out. That’s wild. Okay. The rest of the wedding was actually beautiful and went off without a hitch.  

Paige Connell:  Well, that’s good.

Christa Innis: I guess that’s good. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay.

Paige Connell: I’m confused though. Did she pay for the reception and the rehearsal? It must have been the rehearsal dinner. That she was talking about at the beginning. I can’t imagine she’s paying for a reception she’s not attending. But…

Christa Innis: I know, well it said she insisted on paying for the reception, but…

Paige Connell: Maybe that’s the rehearsal dinner. Myabe it’s at the restaurant. I don’t know.

Christa Innis: Yeah, because it sounds like the night before. Yeah, right. Said, oh yeah. So I’m wondering if she meant rehearsal, maybe. Yeah. Because yeah, it was the night before at a restaurant, and then they got a check. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Yeah. I can’t imagine she’d offer to pay for it now, especially if everything. 

Paige Connell: No, sure. She was escorted away by the police then she wasn’t there for the check. Right.

Christa Innis: Yeah, that is wild. Just because they took the wrong limo. I’m so confused of like, there must be another backstory or something that  happened.

Paige Connell: I mean, it sounds like she doesn’t like the daughter-in-law and it also sounds like, I don’t know, there’s so many accounts out there that talk about these kind of mothers of son dynamics and mother-in-law dynamics and I think this sounds like someone who, obviously we do not have the context here, but like wanted this wedding day to be about her and what she wanted. Um, I also think the grandparent thing is so strange ’cause it’s like it’s two people. You agree to it. Um, and I think. You. Yes. Like if, if somebody paid for my rehearsal dinner, I would say thank you and be grateful and all the things, but, um, you shouldn’t do it because you wanna parade. Like if you’re offering to do it, and if you’re agreeing to do it, it’s, you know, I don’t, I don’t know what she wants from the bride and groom and they’re obviously preoccupied with everything else and that day’s about them. And so. Even if they are thankful, it doesn’t have to like, I don’t know. I don’t know what that person wanted.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. I feel like it’s that common trope of like, they offer to pay for it, but there’s this like invisible string or like, they’re dangling a carrot, you know, to be like, we paid for this, so we get to do this. Or, there’s all these like. If I do this, then I get this and it’s like, that’s not how it works. If it’s a gift, an actual gift, and you wanna help, then treat it as a gift.

Paige Connell: Yeah. There’s no strings attached or control, like you don’t get to control a situation because you financially provided for it. 

Christa Innis: Right. Yeah. And I feel like they want like this, like red carpet then rolled out like, oh, that’s, that’s her. She paid for the event, you know? But it’s like, it’s still not gonna be about you. It’s about the bride and groom.

Paige Connell: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Now she says, now my wedding. After all of that, my husband and I decided we were going to elope to Vegas. We asked my parents it. You’re like-

Paige Connell: Get it. I get it. Yeah, I get that. I eloped as well. I get it.

Christa Innis: Okay. Okay. Um, I guess you can. If you wanna share stuff, but um, you can.

Paige Connell: Yeah. Oh no, my family just doesn’t get along and so I figured instead of that whatever is happening here, I don’t think that would’ve happened to me.

But I think, um, I decided instead to elope with my husband in Italy and we had the best time by ourselves. And so, I mean, I get the eloping I actually recommended to everyone. Even if your family is not complicated, because personally to your point earlier, like weddings are expensive. People are never gonna be fully happy with everything that you do.

And I’m a person who, if you are a person who knows that you’re gonna show up at your wedding and be more concerned with everybody else having a good time than having a good time yourself. Don’t have a wedding, and that’s who I am. Like I would be running around being, are you having fun? Are you having fun?

Are you having fun? The host and I wouldn’t be having any fun. And so eloping, I was able to do whatever I wanted, which was great.

Christa Innis: That’s such great advice because I know brides were like, I was a bridesmaid for them and the whole time they’re more concerned about everyone else. They’re doing everything for the other people.

And it’s like, yes, you wanna, you know, care obviously, and you want people to enjoy themselves, but it goes by so quickly. And if you’re there like stressed about everyone else and like, oh, did so and so like their food, or did so and so blah, blah, blah. Then it’s like it loses the whole purpose, I think.

Paige Connell: Yeah, I agree.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Um, okay, so she says they eloped to Vegas. Um, we asked my parents to watch our daughter and began saving for plane tickets in a hotel we had planned for a two month window. Um, wait, they were going for two months?

Paige Connell: I’m assuming in two months. Like two months from then. Maybe. Maybe. I dunno.

Christa Innis: No, that was, yeah. Sometimes I read as I’m reading these, I’m like not absorbing. I get it the right way. Um, okay. But as life often goes, something unexpected happened. I found out I was pregnant with our second child, no flying for me. So we decided to get married at the courthouse and plan to do a vow renewal in Vegas on our one year anniversary. We wanted to keep it simple and stress free.

So the mother-in-law from the previous story is, is that, that’s gotta be her husband or partner’s mom.

Paige Connell: It’s her husband’s, yeah. Mom. Yeah.

Christa Innis: Okay. So a mom of two sons it sounds like. Who?

Paige Connell: At at least two? Yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah, at least two. Yeah. Who might not like the daughter-in-laws? Okay.

His mom insisted he stay at her house the night before, even though we had already been living together for two years. She also insisted I wear her cross necklace, so she’s going through these same like motions. Despite me not being religious, I had found a dress I love on sale just, just $260 for the dress, Petco and veil. I’m not into heels. I even wore flip flops to the previous wedding, but she took me shoe shopping and made me get these blinged out heels instead of the white slipper style shoes I liked that were only $10.

I, I don’t understand. Made me get like, she’s like, poles are up to the front and is like, you’re wearing these on your wedding day. So I’d be like. No.

Paige Connell: Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, I get it though. I think some people have a hard time. Like if you’re a, uh, which I sometimes say I’m like a natural people pleaser. I’d have a hard time finding a way to like tactfully say no. Uh, but, I think also like, yeah, sometimes, especially with your own wedding, it’s like, yeah, I’m not wearing those shoes. Thank you though.

 Christa Innis: That’s so kind of you.

Paige Connell: It’s kind of you. Um, but I’m gonna politely decline.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah, I know. And I’m sure it’s like so complicated seeing how she reacted to the last wedding. So she’s like probably tiptoeing totally to this mother-in-law. Gosh, that’s gotta be a nightmare. Okay. What was supposed to be a short 25 minute ceremony started to feel like a full-blown production.

I was pregnant, emotional, and just wanted to marry my husband, eat a burger, and go home. My parents offered to take us to an Italian restaurant after the ceremony. I wasn’t thrilled about it, but my husband really wanted to go, so I agreed I figured I’d settle for ravioli instead of a burger. They invited his mom, my best friend, who was my witness, and his brother, who was his witness.

The whole time at the restaurant, his mom was making nasty comments to his brother about his wife. Oh my gosh. So she still doesn’t let this all go. I also wonder how between that wedding and this one, how the relationship was, if they were like, you know, we’re gonna keep our distance. Or if we’re like, oh, it didn’t happen to us, we’re just gonna brush it off. Because getting arrested and pulled outta your son’s wedding is a big deal.

Paige Connell: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I don’t know. Uh, there’s a lot of missing pieces here.

Christa Innis: Yeah. He eventually got up and left. Then she started on in on my husband saying he wasn’t sticking up for her. It got super awkward. I finally said, it’s our wedding day. We just wanna celebrate with the people we love. She looked me dead in the face and said, well, now I have no sons. Are you happy now?

Paige Connell: Yeah. I think, I think she’s just a classic example of the, like, boy moms we see on social media, the the ones who are a bit, um. Yeah. Are never gonna be pleased with whoever the other, uh, it’s weird to say the other woman, but the, the wife is, essentially. I think this is a lived experience that many women have and it feels like a no-win scenario. I mean, obviously we don’t know the intricacies here. We dunno what’s going on from this story. It sounds like she feels like she’s like losing quote, unquote losing her sons to their wives, which like. I think that’s what’s supposed to happen. They’re adults. Um, so yeah, that’s complicated for sure.

Christa Innis: Yeah. There’s a, there was a term for, I just had a therapist on last, a couple weeks ago, and there’s a term for it. It’s like. I can’t, no, I don’t wanna butcher it and like say the wrong thing, but Yeah. It’s like, or enmeshment. Enmeshment.

 Paige Connell:   Yes. Yes.

Christa Innis: And she was like, it’s when they like can’t see their kids as separate people. Mm-hmm. Even when they’re into, they’re adults, they feel like they always own, owe them, or they always are connected in some interesting way that’s not Yeah. Normal. Yeah, not normal, but I guess it’s not.

um, okay. I was shocked in complete disbelief. My husband calmly asked her to speak. To speak with her outside as they were heading out. He told my best friend to grab my coat and purse. We got married in December and bring them to him. She followed and handed them to his mom. Later he told me, he told her her behavior toward me, toward him, toward us was completely unacceptable that she wasn’t going to ruin another wedding day.

He told her we needed a break. There we go. And that she had to accept that her sons had found women they love. She jumped in her car and sped off. We went five months with no contact after that. The root of it all control. She constantly tries to compete with everyone financially, emotionally, and otherwise.

That was nearly 14 years ago and to this day, we still have to take breaks from her.

So they’re not no contact it sounds like, but-

Paige Connell: Maybe low contact. I think some people go like low contact with their parents, where they engage with them when it feels like they can and then otherwise. You know, take space from them. I mean, that’s really hard. I think you hear about these stories a lot of times, and I just dunno that there’s a healthy way to interact with a person who’s going to engage. Even if I felt incredibly wronged by somebody on their wedding day, I would say nothing. No, ma no matter what, my sister, I don’t care. Like, I would say nothing. I’d be like, that’s for another, that’s for my therapist for another day. You know? That’s not for now. I think, um, people who don’t have that capacity, obviously, um, that’s a very different situation and obviously I imagine for their, her sons like so hard to navigate.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I feel like that’s so, that’s gotta be so hard coming in as like a daughter-in-law really excited to like.

Marry this person and having your in-law like hate you just because you’re with her son. Yeah. No other reason. And you really can’t win. I feel like in a situation like that, unless the mom goes to therapy maybe, or like do some social searching or something, I don’t know. Um, that’s just gotta be really challenging.

Paige Connell: I can’t imagine. Yeah. Honestly.

Christa Innis: I’m proud of the, the fiance or the husband because a lot of these stories, you don’t hear them mention the fiance or partner or husband. A lot of times it’s just like their personal story with the mother-in-law or if it is a mother-in-law story or the situation, and we’re always.

Where are they in this story? So I’m really glad that he like put his foot down, was like, this is not okay. Because you don’t always hear that in these stories because- 

Paige Connell: It sounds like both of them did, both, both brothers, um, stuck up for their partners and I think that’s really important. You hear that a lot, which is like, I have these awful in-laws and my partner doesn’t do anything about it.

And you know, I think that’s a really difficult situation to be in. So yeah, I think it’s great that both partners, you know, stepped in.

Christa Innis: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was a wild, wild wedding story. Um, okay. Um, you know, talking, it’s funny that we were talking about eloping and stuff because I, when I share these kinds of stories, people are always like, oh, that’s it.

I’m gonna elope. And I think the important lesson here is like. Know your audience and know what you and your partner want ultimately. Because I think eloping is a great idea. I don’t think everyone should elope, but I think it just do whatever makes sense for you and block out all the noise because it’s so easy to think like, oh, my parents or my sister, or whoever it is, wants this big wedding for us.

And then you do it and you’re like, that’s not what I wanted. And then it’s, yeah. Disappointing.

Paige Connell: Yeah, I think weddings have become this like big, big, I mean, they’ve always been a big thing, but I think now too, in the age of social media, it’s like, what’s the hashtag? What’s this? What’s that? It doesn’t matter at the end of the day.

And I think having a strong partnership is ultimately. The thing that you’re gonna hold onto for the rest of your life is not gonna be that wedding day. I will say I have friends who’ve absolutely loved every single second of their wedding and loved having one and would do it a hundred times more. And I think if you are that person and you think that’s going to be you, you should absolutely do it.

Like do that. And if you’re not, that’s okay. And if it doesn’t end up being the best of your life, that’s okay. Um, and this is not meant to sound, um, flippant, I guess, or I don’t know if that’s the right word, but like, as a wedding guest. I couldn’t tell you what somebody’s bouquet looked like seven, seven days later, let alone seven years later.

I don’t remember, right? I’m here ’cause I love you and I wanna have a good time and I’m gonna dance and I’m probably gonna cry at your vows, but I, you know, I don’t, no one else is nearly as invested as you are. And I tell my friends all the time, like when I’m a bridesmaid, I’m like, don’t worry about my pictures.

You’re never gonna look at ’em again. You’re really not like, you’re never gonna look at this picture of you and I in my bridesmaids dress again, you’re only gonna look at pictures of you and your husband and maybe your family. Yeah. Um, and that’s just the truth. Like at the end of the day, we’re doing it for us and our partner and there’s so much that goes into it that we stress about, and it’s like, no one else is gonna remember this a week from now.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm.  

Paige Connell: You know? So don’t kill yourself. Yeah.  

Christa Innis: Yeah. No, I know. It’s like you hear people getting stressed over like. I mean like the favor being, uh, oh my gosh. I was in a wedding once where they were stressed about the way the favor was on the, on the plate, and I was like, no one’s gonna notice. Let’s not stress about that.

It’s okay.

Paige Connell: And they never know. Like, I didn’t know what it was supposed to be, so I don’t know that it’s wrong. Exactly. You know, like you’re the only one who knows. And here’s the thing, if, if a vendor has royally messed up and you’re paying a lot of money for it, like you should care. Um, but in the sense that you should try and get your money back, not in the sense that like anybody else cares.

Christa Innis: No, absolutely. I would say it was kind of a blessing. Like my husband and I, all our, like good friends got married before us. We were like one of the last ones. And it’ll allow us to see over the years, like what we liked, what we didn’t like, and learn from brides too. Like being like, oh, like I didn’t, I wasted money on this, or I really wish I would’ve done this, or, um, I caved and did this when I really sh you know, whatever that was.

Yeah. And I feel like we chopped off a bunch of people too that like. They wouldn’t have cared to be there or not. And so I feel like you can, we can learn a lot from, from observing, I guess. Um, yeah. Okay. I like to just end these with, uh, some confessions. People send me their crazy confessions in Instagram.

Um, this one says, um, my fiance wants me to remember the good times with the in-laws, and I just don’t think I can. So that sounds like a. Yeah, maybe a bad relationship where-

Paige Connell: Maybe with the in-laws. Yeah. I mean, I think like you can’t, you can’t ask somebody to do something that they don’t have the capacity to do. So it  is what it is.

Christa Innis: Yeah. That sounds like to me, without like assuming too much, it just sounds like the son’s probably put in the middle of like the in-laws. His wife not getting along and he doesn’t want to like, cause a barrier or say no, you know, and so he is just like, just think of the good times. So, that’s hard.

Um, my sisters were so much drama at my wedding then got mad when I didn’t want to be at theirs. Oh.

Paige Connell: That’s, that’s hard.

Christa Innis: That, yeah. That’s tough. Um, last one says I have to invite someone I hate because she’s the wife of my, of my fiance’s best friend.

Paige Connell: Yeah, I think you do have to invite her kind of, Ooh, I don’t know, it’s tricky. I would say if something has actually transpired between the two of you and she is a person who’s caused you harm. You don’t need to, and like your partner should be the one to have that conversation with his best friend. If you just, just like don’t like her, like you just don’t vibe, you don’t like her energy or like just who she is as a person, I think that’s slightly different.

Um, if somebody’s caused you direct harm, it been unkind to you, you shouldn’t have to have them at your wedding. If it’s just that you just don’t like them. Like, I don’t know. I think we can, you are not gonna pay attention. You’re not gonna notice her. Again, going back to the, like, if you have a hundred people at your wedding and you hate one of them for no real reason, and I’m not saying you do, but if, if that’s what it is and it’s like, just don’t pay attention to her. Like just ignore her. It’s you. You don’t have to interact. There’s enough people there to buffer that. It doesn’t have to impact your day.

Christa Innis: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a really good point. And I wanna say, I’ll try to say it so it’s not like too obvious, but I have to say something similar happened at our wedding. I wouldn’t say hate, of course, I don’t hate anybody but someone in our wedding that’s like really close with my husband started dating someone. I knew from my childhood that was just like, like kinda like a bully, not like a nice person. Yeah.

Paige Connell: Yeah.

Christa Innis: And when I found, like, I was like, oh, we have to give him a plus one. I know he’s gonna bring her. And it was just kinda uncomfortable, awkward, not nice person, but I just like put my feelings aside with it and it ended up being fine. Like, it ended up being fine. Totally fine. She was awesome. And I feel like it was just me kind of holding onto some like childhood thing of like, okay, I don’t know how this is gonna go.

And it was fine. So, I don’t know, I, I don’t, not saying recommend to like all of a sudden like, let it go. ’cause we don’t know what happened with these people, but just Right. Totally.

Um, well thank you so much for coming on. I feel like we kind of jumped all over the place because I’m like, oh, like let’s talk weddings and, um, mental load. But I feel like there’s so many important conversations to have and I was just telling someone, like I started by just sharing like, you know, wedding stories on here. ’cause that’s what I do on my, in my content. But I feel like it’s so much more complicated than just wedding. There’s relationships, there’s um, you know, new, you know, new relationships, dynamics, that kind of thing.

And it all ties into so much more. So thank you for coming on.

Paige Connell: Thanks for having me.

Christa Innis: Can you again just tell everybody where they can follow you, what kind of content you share, and anything interesting or fun you’re working on?

Paige Connell: Yeah, sure. I share content on modern marriage and motherhood and what that looks like in relation to gender equity, and you can follow me on pretty much every social media platform at, she’s a page turner.

I also have a website. She’s a page turner.com, a substack, all the things, and so. You know, if you Google it, you’ll find me.

Christa Innis: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It was awesome chatting with you.

Paige Connell: Thank you. 

by Christa Innis

Hired Bridesmaids, Fake Weddings, and a Parking Lot Party with Jen Glantz

My new book Here Comes the Drama: A Ferris and Sloan Story is live!

Get the book!

Weddings and meltdowns? A tale as old as time. In this hilarious and heartfelt episode, Christa chats with Jen Glantz, professional bridesmaid and founder of Bridesmaid for Hire, about the chaos, comedy, and confessions that come with walking down the aisle.

From makeup disasters to fire alarms (yes, really), we hear a wild listener story that proves a great attitude and a solid DJ can save any wedding. Jen also shares her bold take on why the bridesmaid tradition might be on its way out — and we are HERE for it.

So grab your glass of champagne and tune in for secrets, laughs, and a whole lot of drama. Because if it didn’t go off the rails at least once, was it even a wedding?

Join me on Patreon and get bonus content every month! 

Episode Chapter Markers

00:00 Introduction

00:00 Introduction

00:40 Starting Bridesmaid for Hire

02:10 First Experiences as a Hired Bridesmaid

03:37 Wedding Drama and Secrets

10:32 Reflections on Weddings and Marriage

24:12 Surprise Weddings vs. Bridal Showers

24:39 Bridesmaid Dress Dilemmas

26:26 Wedding Day Mishaps and Makeup Mayhem

28:01 A Wedding Day Story: Locked in the Bridal Suite

36:02 Wedding Chaos and Confessions

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

  • When Makeup Goes Rogue – One bridesmaid’s obsession with touch-ups led to mismatched foundation and delayed the entire glam schedule. A perfect example of beauty chaos in action.
  • Locked in the Bridal Suite – Just minutes before the ceremony, the bride was accidentally locked in a historic art museum room by a kid… and had to be freed by maintenance.
  • The Corn-on-the-Cob Catastrophe – Steam from dinner set off the museum’s smoke detectors, forcing a full-on evacuation mid-wedding. Yes, over corn.
  • Dancing in the Parking Lot – With no venue access, the bartender rolled out drinks and the DJ kept the party going outside. Crisis = avoided.
  • The Uninvited Plus-One – An estranged wife of a guest showed up unannounced and partied like she was on the list. Because of course she did.
  • The Case for Bridesmaid Extinction – Jen shares her spicy hot take that bridesmaids aren’t just unnecessary, they’re on their way out completely.
  • Strangers Are the Best Listeners – Jen opens up about why she connects more deeply with strangers than friends, and how that makes her job as a pro bridesmaid uniquely powerful.
  • Chaos, Confessions, and a Wedding That Still Won – Despite the disasters, the couple (and their guests) still call it the most fun wedding they’ve ever been to, and that’s the real win.

Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode

  • “This is like literally a movie-like, all these little things that happen? Insane. Wild.” – Christa Innis
  • “We shield ourselves in certain ways, not because someone’s making us, but because it just feels easier to be our full selves around strangers sometimes.” – Christa Innis
  • “If you go into your wedding day knowing something will go wrong, you’re gonna be fine. It’s the ones expecting perfection that freak out.” – Christa Innis
  • “Please, guests, don’t tell the bride drama during the wedding. Save it for next week!” – Christa Innis
  • “Just leave it to the professionals, and please, put down the iPad.” – Christa Innis
  • “I don’t love weddings, I love helping strangers through one of the most stressful times in their lives.”– Jen Glantz
  • “Your best friend might lie to spare your feelings. I won’t, I’ve got no stakes in this game.” – Jen Glantz
  • “Being locked in a room on your wedding day? That’s my literal nightmare.” – Jen Glantz
  • “You don’t need bridesmaids. In five to ten years, I think they’ll be extinct.” – Jen Glantz
  • “If you have good people and good vendors, they can carry you through anything, even a wedding evacuation.” – Jen Glantz

About Jen:

Jen Glantz turned a closet full of bridesmaid dresses into a bold idea: what if you could hire a professional bridesmaid? After joking about always being a bridesmaid, a lightbulb moment, and a Craigslist ad, led to 250+ inquiries in two days. In 2014, she launched Bridesmaid for Hire, offering unbiased support in a $300B wedding industry. Since then, Jen’s helped hundreds of clients, trained a team of pros, and become the go-to expert on wedding chaos, featured on the TODAY Show, GMA, and more.

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A Team Dklutr Production

Blog Transcript:

Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Christa Innis: Hi Jen. Thank you for being here.

Jen Glantz: Thank you so much for having me.

Christa Innis:  It feels so funny to like say hi now ’cause we’ve just been chatting nonchalantly for like 30 minutes. I’m like, oh, maybe we should like start recording. I feel like we just so naturally just started like hanging out like old friends. ’cause I’ve been following your content for such a long time and I feel like it just fits so well into what we’re gonna talk about today.

Jen Glantz: Oh, I’m so excited to be here. I love the show. I’ve been following you too, and I feel like we’re like long distance best friends who needed a reason to meet and now we’re meeting, so this is great.

The Professional Bridesmaid Who Saves Weddings (and Keeps Secrets)

Christa Innis: Yeah,  and we just found out that our daughters are like pretty much twins, like born the same time, so that’s pretty fun too. So all these things just lining out, which is kind of cool. So let’s talk about a little bit more about you. you started Bridesmaid for Hire, so let’s talk about that and then we’ll get into all the drama and crazy stories that you might have. So how did you get started and like what made you start it?

Jen Glantz: It was such an accident. I was in my early twenties and like a lot of people, I was just asked to be a bridesmaid so many times by friends. And then what happened? It was like distant friends, people I hadn’t spoken to in forever started asking me to be a bridesmaid.

And I didn’t really like being a bridesmaid. I thought it was expensive. I just thought it was like too much. I didn’t like it. And I was venting to my roommate one night after two of these distant friends asked me and she was like, Jen, they’re asking you ’cause you’re a professional. Like you’re just good at this.

And I had like a light bulb moment where I thought, okay, if I could do this for people who I hardly know, maybe I could do it for people I really don’t know. And at the time, Craigslist was a big thing. So it was a Friday night. I opened up Craigslist and I posted an ad offering my services as a hired bridesmaid for strangers.

The ad went completely viral. I got hundreds of emails, people wanting to hire me, and now it’s been a decade and I’ve been a hired bridesmaid for hundreds of strangers.

Christa Innis: That’s amazing. I was gonna ask you, how many times have you been at BRIDESMAID now? So now it’s been like in the hundreds?

Jen Glantz: Yes. There were years where I worked like 59 weddings a year. I would work two or three weddings a weekend. I didn’t see anybody, none of my friends, not my boyfriend, who’s now my husband, like I was only on the road working weddings. I’ve since slowed down a little bit ’cause I have a toddler, but I still do it and the business is alive and well.

Christa Innis: Wow, that’s amazing. And so. What was that like first wedding? Like where you worked with a stranger? Like were you kind of figuring things out because I’m sure it’s so different with someone you know, versus someone that like you know nothing about. Like were you interviewing them first, finding out that you’re a good match? What were kind of the stipulations for like working together?

Jen Glantz: It was so crazy ’cause I had posted this Craigslist ad. I got all these responses and I just happened to scroll through one, her name was Ashley from Maple Grove, Minnesota, and in her email she was like, I wanna hire you because my best friend, I just fired her as my maid of honor. She was jealous. She was sabotaging the wedding. Ashley had mentioned that her mom had passed away and she just really didn’t have the support that she needed. And I got the email. I called her up, we talked for a little bit, and I thought. Okay, let’s do this. I had no idea what I was doing. I wasn’t the best bridesmaid in the world. I didn’t like being a bridesmaid. But I posted this ad for fun and I got this response and I thought, okay, well maybe it is my calling. So a couple weeks later, I got on a plane. I flew to Minnesota, I walked into her house and I was her bridesmaid for the weekend. We instantly connected. I found this like love for her in so many different ways.

I was able to show up for her. I walked down the aisle for her. I wore the dress. I danced on the dance floor with her. And I remember getting back on the plane thinking this was the craziest thing I’ve ever done. And nobody’s gonna understand this, but I absolutely know that this is something that the world needs and I’m gonna spend my life doing it. And that was 10 years ago.

Christa Innis: Wow. So I’m sure you get, like you said, like this girl had just fired her maid of honor. So I’m sure you get all kinds of like dirt or tea or stories like from people that are like, okay, like this is the bridesmaid to look out for, or we’re having issues with this bridesmaid. Like, are you so quickly like brought into the drama or brought into the dynamics of the family?

Jen Glantz: Oh, beyond. I don’t know if you realize this, like, and you do this probably too. It’s like we tell strangers things a lot easier than we do tell our friends, our family members. I know like, I’ve been on the subway or I’ve been on a bench in New York and I’ve struck up conversation with someone and told them a secret that my friends don’t even know about me.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Jen Glantz: You know, we go to therapy, we tell the therapist things nobody knows about us. Yeah. So to a lot of people who hire me, I’m that temporary pair of ears that they can just trauma dump and never have to see again.

Yeah. I think. Interesting thing is, is that when someone hires me, nobody else knows I’m hired.

So they don’t tell their family, their friends, sometimes they don’t even tell their Beyonce. But I do think I bring this energy to people around me of you can trust me, you can tell me things and I won’t judge you. ’cause I really have no stake in the game to judge you. Mm-hmm. So I end up being that bridesmaid with no agenda, no real intentions. And people come to me to tell me things because I think I give off that energy. So I have mothers telling me things, bridesmaid telling me things like everyone telling me things and yeah, you often leave the wedding and you’re like, I am so full with drama right now. I don’t know what I’m gonna do with like, I need to explode, but I have nowhere to explode. It’s the weirdest and worst feeling after the wedding.

Christa Innis: Oh my gosh. So when you’re thinking back of all the weddings, I mean, I’m sure you’ve all these like flooded memories that come up. What’s like one of the craziest or like out there things that you either witnessed or you heard about or you saw at a wedding?

Jen Glantz: I worked a wedding one in Staten Island. I got to know the bride and the groom for about three to four months. Everything checked out. Everything seemed normal. I get to the wedding, we get her dressed. We have a great morning. Everything is going really well. All of a sudden, five minutes before the ceremony, all her guests are seated.

The wedding officiants there. Five minutes before the wedding, she grabs my arm, pulls me in a room and locks the door and she says, Jen, I hate the groom. I don’t wanna do this. Oh, that was the first time that this has happened to me. Like, you see this in movies, the bride who’s I don’t wanna do this, let’s go.

Yeah. But this was happening in real life, and I think this was like two or three years into the job where I never experienced this. So I basically said to her like, look, I will call us an Uber. I’ll sneak you out the back door. Like we will go, I don’t care. I’ve been paid. I don’t care. You know?

But I personally can’t sleep at night unless you sit down with the groom and tell him you’re leaving because like that just doesn’t seem right to me. Yeah, this isn’t a rom-com. This isn’t a movie. This is people’s real life. So I basically put the groom in the room with her. I put a timer on my phone for 10 minutes and I was like, you guys talk for 10 minutes and then I will come back and whatever is decided I will help you with.

So in that 10 minute time, they basically hashed it out and they realized, okay, like they actually don’t wanna marry each other. They don’t like each other, they don’t wanna do this. But the weddings now and my, you know, the wedding should have started. So basically what they decided was that they were gonna go through with the wedding.

They never signed the marriage license, and it was just gonna be fake because the truth is like nobody actually knows if you sign your marriage license. And that’s what marriage actually is, is that legal document. So honestly, at a lot of weddings, they just don’t sign the wedding, the marriage license, and they’re not really married.

So the wedding starts, they don’t sign the marriage license, they’re like miles away from each other. The first dance, they’re like high schoolers who like won’t touch each other. It’s an outdoor wedding. It’s supposed to be a beautiful day. It starts storming torrential downpour. Everyone’s soaking wet.

They go to move the cake on the dance floor, the cake falls off the table. Like literally everything goes wrong. It was as if the universe was like, this shouldn’t happen. And I just remember leaving that wedding thinking like, wow, like this is crazy. It was crazy.

Christa Innis: Like you mentioned, it’s not like a romcom, but it kind of like it sounds so crazy they’re like together this whole time playing this wedding and then the day of, they’re just both like, yeah, you know, I don’t really care. Let’s just go through this fake wedding. And did anyone else know?

Jen Glantz: No, because, all her friends were just like, why, what’s going on? And I was like, oh, they just like have to talk about something before they go do their vows.

So like nobody really knew. But then I think during the wedding there was obviously a sense of like distance and hatred between them. But a lot of people don’t really pick up on that. nobody really questioned it. And yeah, I think like after the wedding ended, a couple months later, they just went their separate ways. And that happens. I mean, not a lot of people, but people will break up or get divorced a couple months or a year after they get married because they felt this way on their wedding day, but they just didn’t admit it.

Christa Innis: Yeah, I’ve, seen it happen before too, where like all the signs were there and I’ve talked this before, so sorry to people listening. They’re like, I’ve heard this story, but A wedding that I was in years ago, and it was like all the signs, like every single event that we had around the wedding, the shower, the bachelorette party, even the rehearsal like ended with her in tears, like saying, I don’t wanna do this and I, like, we all sat in the car and we’re like, you don’t have to do this. We will figure out a way to get you out of this. But it was like more about now the presentation of the wedding and it was like, no, we’ll make it work. And I’m like, if you have all these negative gut feelings, I don’t know, like something’s telling me, you know? And so I feel like that happens a lot too. ’cause it’s more of the pressure of the big day, oh, family’s flying in. Oh we already paid the vendor. Or what are people gonna think of us? And it’s like, well it either doesn’t work out now or down the line it you get divorced or whatever. But yeah…

Jen Glantz: And in a weird way I get it because I do think like it’s hard to back out right before, and I’ve talked to so many people who are like. I remember walking down the aisle of my first marriage thinking, wow, this is gonna suck to have to do again. Like they knew on their wedding day that it just wasn’t gonna work.

But they were so far deep into it, and I get that, like, you get yourself so far into a situation, you might just take it to the finish line and then back out of it after. I can never judge people for that, and I completely, completely get it. But yeah, it’s really weird when someone admits that to you because there’s this aura around a wedding that everyone’s supposed to be in love and happy, but that’s not always the case.

Christa Innis: Right. I know. I think that’s where like in the wedding industry, it gets very caught up with like, looks and appeal and like, who’s spending the most money. And I feel like that’s where like a lot of the drama comes into with like, the lot of stories I read, it’s all about like looking good and like, flashy, flashy. And it’s like, are we getting lost in the mix of all this chaos around weddings versus like. A couple that just has a very intimate wedding and just signs a paper, Or just has like 15 other closest friends,not saying one’s better than the other, but I feel like sometimes we get lost in like what other people want for us or looking good in front of other people, for sure.

Jen Glantz: I think it’s scary because we get so lost in it that the wedding ends and then you’re left with the marriage and you’re like, wait a second. I spent no time thinking about the marriage. I spent no time planning what would be next. That there is that wedding blues thing where after you get married you’re like, what now?

What is life? Do I really wanna be with this person forever? Like I didn’t even have a wedding. But I did feel that after we got married, the first year of marriage was so hard for me. ’cause I was like, wait a second. I’m stuck with this my whole life, like this little thing about my husband, like he’s never gonna change this.

I have to deal with this forever. Like I definitely had moments of that where I was like, wait a second. But like I think we just feel really strange after the wedding. And if you do a good job preparing for marriage, asking your partner the right questions, being on the same page about finances and future stuff, then the wedding will end no matter how you get married.

And your marriage will be off to a good start. But if you focus so much on the wedding and then you leave the wedding, you’re in debt, you’re sad ’cause that chapter’s over, it makes marriage really hard and that first year can be kind of brutal.

Christa Innis: Yeah, I agree with that too. I feel like there’s a lot of people that don’t realize or they realize, but they kind of pushed it aside. They’re like, oh, everything’s just gonna fall in place. Because I think it’s like the movies, you know, we talk about the movies and it’s like, you see all these like romance movies when you grow up and the finish line is the marriage or the wedding, right? And so like they get married at the end, they fall in love and they live happily ever after. I dunno if it’s like how girls grow up, right? We see these movies with princesses but like there’s more after the happily ever. After the big thing, there’s the actual life starting now.

Jen Glantz: It’s so boring. Like honestly, it’s so boring. So like how are you gonna be okay with that? You know? I feel like you planned this like grand wedding and then it’s over, and then you’re like, wait, now I’m on the couch with this person for the rest of my life. There’s a big reality check that I think people feel and no one really talks about.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. I think that’s such an important conversation. I mean, we see these a lot, these stories when they come together, to get married. And then it’s like that, we were just talking about this before recording, how different families and personalities come together for this big day.

You hear like for example, somebody’s mother-in-law stories and then now you’re like, I’m married into this family, so now I have to see this mother-in-law at every single event. Or I have to see this cousin that hates me every single event or whatever that is. So like what people say is you’re not just marrying your partner, you’re marrying the family, or you’re marrying a routine or you’re marrying, that becomes your life, I guess.

Jen Glantz: It really does. I think the drama you’re experiencing within the wedding won’t go away. When the wedding is over. It will carry through to your life. So how you deal with it, how you process it, how you fix it during the wedding will be an indication of how you can handle it after. Because drama doesn’t just come and go with the wedding I think it sticks around for a long time, if not forever sometimes.

Christa Innis: Yeah. So in these scenarios, when you are hired as a bridesmaid, I feel like some of these dramatic moments are moments where they like kind of wanna like pull you into what’s going on. How do you like mix, empathy versus professionalism versus like how do you kinda like carry, I feel like it’d be so challenging for some of these moments.

’cause you’re like, okay, am I a friend here, but am I also like a bridesmaid? Like how do you do all that?

Jen Glantz: The only way to do it is to go all in. To go all in and pretend and not pretend, but to truly believe that this person is your friend, and to treat them that way and to show them like this level of love that you have for your friends, for this person you hardly know, which I think makes doing the job hard.

And you at the core have to be a person who. Likes other people who enjoys other people, even people who are so different than you. So I go all in. I have to listen to the drama, I have to take it on. It becomes my drama. And you have to really be there for the person, even if inside you’re thinking, this is so stupid.

This is so, like, there’s bigger problems in life. Like you’re thinking all these things. It’s just like when your friend vents to you and you’re like, I wanna tell them. Like, get over it. But instead you’re like, no, I’m here. I hear you. I’m listening. Well, how can we get through this? Like, you really have to be in the moment.

But I think again, when you leave these weddings, you never see these people again. You’re cut off from the drama, you don’t always know how things end. And you go back to your real life and you’re like, who do I talk to about this? And for a while it was like really, really hard. It would take me like 24 to 48 hours to detox from this drama and everything I experienced.

 And it was really tough. And my husband, who was my boyfriend back then. He would be like listening, but he wouldn’t be able to fully understand or process ’cause he didn’t walk in those shoes.

Christa Innis: Right.

Jen Glantz: So yeah, it became really hard. It became like I was living in this double life where I’d come back to my real life and I would be like depressed because I’m just like shedding all of this emotion that I carried for a weekend.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And I think I saw, and I, if you do this for every wedding, but like sometimes you like. People don’t know you’re a hired bridesmaid. so sometimes you have a story means you have a different name. So how did that kind of start and do you think those are more common than being who you are as like known of, a hired bridesmaid?

Jen Glantz: So most of the time when they hire me, I have a fake name, a fake backstory, and I integrate into their life. So they’ll say, okay, I want you to be Jackie from high school. Here’s where I went to high school. Here’s everything you need to know. And I study this identity. I study all the facts from street corners to clubs we were in.

I read the yearbook like, oh my gosh, on this role as Jackie. And then when the wedding ends, Jackie disappears. And it’s not that weird ’cause like friends do come and go from our lives. So it’s very normal that Jackie would just be flaky and like never talk to this person again. That happens. So I become Jackie and then I ditch Jackie.

And then the next wedding I go to, I become Samantha. And I change my identity for these people to really integrate into their lives. They wanna keep it a secret. They don’t want people to know, and that’s their choice. And I carry that out for them.

Christa Innis: Wow. So. That sounds like you’re like the FBI or you’re like undercover. Do you ever stress out about like, what if I actually say the wrong name when I’m just chatting with someone?

Jen Glantz: Oh, like beyond the secret is when you’re talking to people, you just talk more about them and not about you. So like if they ask me a question, I’m like, everything’s good. I’m like, yeah, I’m good.

How about you? Like you just throw it back on them so that you don’t talk very much, which is. Totally fine. Like you could be the shy bridesmaid who just is like kind of aloof and that’s the personality you take on.

Christa Innis: Yeah. That also sounds so fun ’cause it’s like you get to like live up whatever, like you’re just telling these crazy stories. You’re like, yeah, when I was in college I did this. And you’re just living your best life. Do you go to bachelorette parties? Do you go to showers? Like what other kind of events do you attend and like what are those kind of like?

Jen Glantz: I do bachelor parties, rehearsal dinners, engagement parties, bridal showers.

I think the most interesting part is that I don’t drink, I just don’t like to drink. I haven’t drank in so many years, so I go to all these things completely sober. And it’s interesting because a lot of these environments are meant to be you, and people are kind of more rowdy and drinking. So when you’re the sober one, you see it in such a different light. Like you see the drama in a really different light. But also like I need to be sober because my job is not to party with them, it’s to fake party with them, but be there for them and you really need to have a clear mind. So I think that’s like a lot of people who want to work this job are like, I’d be so good at it. I love to party, I love to drink. I’m like, but that’s not the job. The job is to be like an emotional support animal for these people and really just like be there with all the twists and turns. And I think that it’s less glamorous than people think it is.

I’m Not Wedding-Obsessed But I’ll Be There for You”

Christa Innis: Yeah. okay, so you said like in the beginning you weren’t really a fan of being a bridesmaid, but then through making this your business and then like being in so many different weddings, is it like something that you find joy in and like what are your favorite parts of it all?

Like, because I’m sure it’s so different. I’m sure you meet like very organized brides that like tell you like this, this and this. And other times you’re probably helping them organize a little bit more. So has that like shifted or changed since you’ve done it?

Jen Glantz: You know, I’ve said this publicly from day one that I don’t love weddings. I don’t understand them. I did not have one. I’m not wedding obsessed. I never was the little girl who cared about weddings. I still feel that way. I don’t necessarily love the wedding environment. I absolutely have this like deep love for strangers and helping people Idon’t know. I’ve always been like that.

It’s just part of my personality. I find it harder to connect with people in my life. I find it easier to connect with strangers, and that’s why I do it. That’s why I love it. I do think my favorite part of the job is being able to help a person during a difficult time in their lives. People don’t label weddings as that, but they actually are.

It’s really tough for people to have a wedding, especially ’cause most people have a tough family dynamic. They have secrets they have. Problems that surface during the wedding and they don’t really have anyone to turn to. ’cause your friends, they’re busy or you feel scared to tell them this information ’cause it will live with them forever.

So being able to enter a person’s life and help them process what should be a good time in their life, but is often a stressful time. Is the reason why I really love this job. I am not qualified to be a therapist, nothing like that. But I do feel like a little bit of my job is therapy for people, or at least it’s like a secret keeper.

Like I hold onto their secrets for them. and to be able to help them get through that is what keeps me going. It just happens to be in a wedding setting.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And I’m sure like you were saying earlier, like having an unbiased opinion from someone or just an open ear is helpful. ’cause you think like all your closest people at a part of your wedding or something, they’re all gonna have some kind of bias around you.

Like whether that’s good or bad. Right? And so just having someone there that’s there to help you and listen, like I’m sure just feels good to be like, just be on my side for this. I just need to tell you about this crazy thing my aunt did, or you know, whatever it is. Um, yeah, and I’m

Jen Glantz: Not gonna lie to you because I have no stakes in the game.

So like, if you want my honest opinion, I’m gonna be honest. If you want unbiased advice, I’m going to do that because I don’t have to ever see you again. So I’m not gonna say things because I need to tiptoe around you. I’m gonna say what you want because. That’s kind of the relationship is like, I am completely going to be unbiased for you.

I’m not going to lie to you. I’m gonna try to help you and do what’s I think is best for you because I have no stakes in the game where your best friend might be like, oh, Jen, like you’re just having cold feet. Like go through it that go through with it because they don’t want you to be embarrassed and they have all these like other agendas.

I have no agenda except that I’m, my job is to be there for you like a true friend would.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I love that you said too, like it’s easier to talk to strangers about things than like people in your own life. ’cause I was like, it’s weird. I like kind of, I get that what you’re talking about. It’s such like a profound thing that I’ve never thought about. But like even when I started my TikTok account, I made sure like. It was a brand new account. I didn’t tell any of my, even like best friends that I was doing other than my husband, no one knew I was making videos on TikTok until like it hit a certain point. Then I was like, okay, they’ll probably see it somewhere. So I was like, here, like, just so you know, I’m not like lying or like making things up. I was like, here, this is my account. because it just felt easier to almost feel like, you know what? These people don’t know anything about me. I can be like on the internet and do a weird skit and know they’re not gonna be like, oh, that girl’s weird. ’cause I’m like, I have no idea who that is. You know.

Jen Glantz: Less pressure for you because then you don’t have to think about, okay, what is my friend gonna think of this? Or what is this person gonna think? Like, it’s less pressure, it’s the more authentic version of you. I think it’s amazing when people do that because I think like we’re so swayed by the people in our lives for so many things.

Like I think It could be good to get engaged and not tell anybody for a really long time and spend that time making your own decisions about what you want for your wedding because you’d be surprised, like the second you get engaged and you tell people, everybody has an opinion for you. Everybody is swaying you one way or the other. And I think that’s really hard for people. So I love that you did that because I really think it allows you to be authentic without the pressure of everyone in your life.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I think we definitely, I don’t know if it’s like shield ourself in certain ways. Not because one’s making us, but I just think we naturally like maybe act a certain way around someone or say something around a person. And that allows us to be like our, like you said, authentic self.

Okay. I know we’re kind of like behind schedule and I know you’ve got, I don’t wanna like keep you too long, so let’s get to the next area and if we have a cutoff, let me know too.

Jen Glantz: Oh my God, no. Thank you. I’m like texting my husband. He’s like, Just wondering. So I was like texting you.

Blisters, Secrets, and Surprise Weddings

Christa Innis: Yeah, no, sorry. Okay, so we’re gonna do a quick rapid fire and then we’re gonna do this week story submission, if that works for you. Okay. So Rapid Fire Wedding Chaos Edition. Would you rather find out the bride copied your wedding, or your best friend booked her wedding the same day as yours?

Jen Glantz: I’d rather someone copy my wedding because I feel like. That wouldn’t bother me as much. I do feel like it would make me kind of flattered that they liked my style or my design, but I think my best friend having the same wedding, that would be, really awful. Like, yeah, that’d be tough to get over. And I think it would separate the friendship.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. I agree. Would you rather have a maid of honor speech include your most embarrassing story story or your biggest secret?

Jen Glantz: I think embarrassing story. ’cause I think if it’s enough distance, time-wise, you can process that. It’s funny but secret. That could be like a dagger to the heart. I don’t know.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Especially you don’t know if it’s coming. You’re like, great.

Jen Glantz: Right. No embarrassing story. I feel like with distance it could be funny.

Christa Innis: Yeah. would you rather have to plan a surprise bridal shower or a surprise wedding?

Jen Glantz: You know, I once went to a surprise wedding and it was so cool. So I think I would say surprise wedding actually, because I feel like it’s so shocking for everybody that like it is kind of magical. Whereas bridal shower, it’s cute, it’s fun, but like I think the wedding could be really, shocking.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I feel like showers, like in my parents’ generation at least, they used to be a little more surprised. Like my mom was like, we never knew when it was coming, and like you would just get surprised. So, yeah well, surprise wedding sounds really fun. Would you rather wear a bridesmaid dress you hate, which you might have? Sorry about that. Or shoes that give you blisters.

Jen Glantz: Mm-hmm. God, this one’s like really dark. I would say bride me dress you hate. ’cause when you take it off at the end of the night, you can like leave it behind. But we’ve all had those blisters on our feet that linger for like a month and are so painful no matter what shoe you wear. Like my feet right now are like tingling, thinking about it. So I think I would say ugly dress.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I can only imagine the amount of bridesmaid dresses you have. You could probably have a collection.

Jen Glantz: Yeah, they’re literally all in garbage bags at my husband’s, parents’ house, and then we have an office and I just have like garbage bags of dresses.

Christa Innis: Oh my gosh.

Jen Glantz: Ever need a bridesmaid dress? Let me know. I probably have it. Oh my gosh.

Christa Innis: You could have like your own bridesmaid, like resale store or something from all of them.

Jen Glantz: I tell all my friends and I tell everyone I know, like, if you ever have to go to a wedding, call me first. I’ve got dresses in every size. Like, come over, take ’em. But the only rule is you cannot bring it back like once. It’s yours. It’s yours. I don’t want it.

Christa Innis: would you rather have to redo your hair and makeup three times or redo the seating chart the morning of.

Jen Glantz: I think the seating chart, I think you can get away with that easier, but you’re doing your hair and makeup, that takes so much time that I worry it would push the wedding time start. So…

Christa Innis: Yeah, that would stress me out. would you rather have a wedding, be kid free or phone free?

Jen Glantz: Because I have a kid, I’m gonna say phone free. I know that kid free weddings are like such a thing. But I do think there is such like life that these little kids bring to weddings and I’m so biased. But I do think like it’s more fun. Whereas like a phone wedding, I think we can all like put the phone down.

Like everyone’s taking like videos of them on the dance floor. Like of what? No one wants to see your head on Instagram of you like bobbing your head dancing.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Jen Glantz: Let the kids come if you want.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Leave it to the, professional photographers. Yes, yes. Yeah. Be present. And it’s so funny because, and I know this is gonna be a blanket statement, but I feel like the, older generation that tends to be like, oh, get off your phone.

They’re the ones more on their phones at weddings when I am at weddings or their iPads.

Jen Glantz: Thank you. I was just gonna say that I’ve been to so many weddings where they’re the first two rows and their iPad is like up in the air and I’m like, oh my god. No. Yeah. I think like phone free would be amazing for everyone. Oh my gosh. I love that.

Locked Doors, Dessert Raids, and a Surprise Guest

Christa Innis: Okay, and now the story submission, are we still okay on time?

Jen Glantz: So nervous. Okay. Awesome.

Christa Innis: Okay, so this is this week’s story submission. I’ve not read it yet, so we’ll react together. this might be drama for some, but to me it was just funny. Here’s the story of our wedding day.

I come from a big family and most of them stayed in the same hotel as us the night before the wedding in different rooms. Of course, my husband took, my cousin, took it upon themselves. To make sure my husband and I didn’t accidentally run into each other the night before the ceremony. It was actually the first time he was meeting some of them, and he thought it was hilarious how seriously they took their self-appointed mission as my gift to my bridesmaids.

I paid for professional hair and makeup. One of my bridesmaid, let’s call her Leah, is a family member who kept going back for touchups between everyone else, the rest of the bridal party, my mom, even my daughter. Which caused a delay for me getting ready and threw off our timeline. Karma’s real though, because she had her makeup redone so many times.

I love that. We were just talking about having makeup redone and then this just happens. She had her makeup redone so many times. She ended up with two different foundation shades. So now in all the wedding pictures, she only shows up in profile. We got married in an art museum that used to be an old mansion.

The bridal suite was the original master bedroom complete with its original door. The museum was still open to the public when the wedding started, our ceremony was at 4:30 PM and the MU museum closed at five and there was a kid’s room right to the outside of the suite. Okay. A lot of, lot of set up details here.

Um, after the bridal party left to line up for the perception processional, I had a few minutes to myself. Not even two minutes later, I heard a kid fall into the door. Yep. They jammed it shut and I got locked inside. This sounds like a movie. Oh my gosh. I would be freaking out. Oh God. I would not do well with that. I’m telling you right now.

Jen Glantz: No, my like, literally my number one fear is getting locked inside of a bathroom. I will never lock the door. I’m like, this is like my fear. My fear,

Christa Innis: Yeah. Have you ever been somewhere where the, the doorknob gets like clicked and for a minute you’re like, this is where I live now.

Jen Glantz: It happened to me the other day. In like a dark little coffee shop bathroom, and I could not get the door open and I, I was freaking out. I was like, how does this end, it’s my, it’s my biggest fear. My whole body like shuts down and get hives. Like I’m listening to this and I’m like, on the wedding day, like the worst thing that could happen.

Christa Innis: Oh my gosh. She said, when I didn’t show up downstairs, my wedding coordinator came to find me and discovered that the door was stuck. I was laughing the whole time. At least Alicia can laugh about it. I give the credit. I know. I’m like sweating, thinking about it. I know. She ended up grabbing the maintenance man and my photographer and they had to take the hinges off the door to get me out.

Jen Glantz: God.

Christa Innis: Oh my gosh. This is like a total side story, but I’m thinking about how there was this one time. So we have a balcony where we live and one time my husband and I were out, like reading one morning, this was before we had kids, our daughter, and I’m like reading and he’s like, I’m gonna go in and shower.

And I’m like, not paying attention, so I’m just reading blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he, um, wasn’t thinking. And I like finally go to go inside. The door is locked and he like was just, just doing his normal thing. So he just like shut it. And I’m like out there and I’m like, and it was like a hot day and like this is me just like being dramatic.

And I didn’t have my phone out. I didn’t bring my phone out, I didn’t bring my watch out. And I’m like. Oh my gosh. Okay. I’ll just try to read, I’m like sitting there panicking and I’m like, what if like, he like takes a long shower and like sometimes he just like, like, um, breathing exercises. And I was like, what if he takes so long to get outta here?

And then he like finally comes out and I’m at the door and I’m like, he’s like, oh my gosh, did I lock you in?

Jen Glantz: Nope. Like, what if he left to go out or something? Like what would you have done? What would you have done? I dunno.

Christa Innis: I don’t know. I mean, luckily we’re not too high off, but I probably would just flag someone if I saw ’em on the street. Like, hey!

Jen Glantz: Yeah, no, but like that is like terrifying. That is. But even being stuck out there for five minutes, like your life kind of flashes before you, you’re like, is there an end to this? It’s scary.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Especially when you on the clock, like you lose like track of time. You’re like, how long was I out here for?

I don’t even know what it was. I, no, it probably 30 seconds, but it feels like 20 minutes, like two minutes. Um. Why my mom always called me dramatic growing up. Um, okay. The ceremony went great. Okay, so I guess so she got out, ceremony went great. Cocktail hour, also a win. Then dinner service started. Remember, we’re still in a museum.

They brought out a fresh tray of corn on the cob and the steam from it set off the smoke detectors. Because we weren’t an official museum event, we had to evacuate until the fire department arrived. Damn.

Jen Glantz: Oh my God. Okay. I honestly thought the fire department was gonna have to come to knock down the door.

So I’m like, okay. There’s, I’m glad the fire department’s coming now. Like that is awful. Imagine standing outside in your wedding dress with all of your guests just like standing this room.

Christa Innis: This is like literally like a movie, like seeing like all these things. I’m just glad she’s like being able to like look back and like laugh on it.

Jen Glantz: Yeah. Yeah.

Christa Innis: She said 30 minutes outside, no fire trucks. It’s like weddings, like 30 minutes is a lot of time. There’s a lot that can happen. Yes. Turns out the security officer told dispatch not to send them since there wasn’t an actual fire, but the museum’s insurance required them to come, so we were stuck outside for over an hour. Oh no!

Jen Glantz: Oh my God. That is crazy. Like also like are, were they allowed to bring drinks with them? Food with them? I doubt it. Like I’m sure. Yeah. And like, God, the temperature was, and people standing around like it, I think it also kills the vibe ’cause everyone was probably like up, up, up. And then they’re like back down to reality. So recovering from that must be really tough.

Christa Innis: Oh my gosh. Seriously? Yeah. Then you’re, yeah, you’re like, you’re like outta your party mode. You’re like, okay, what? When are they gonna get here?

Jen Glantz: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Um, it says, but don’t worry, our bartender pulled their truck around and kept serving drinks. There you go. In the parking lot, the DJ grabbed a speaker and his phone and the people were dancing in the parking lot. I love that. That is so awesome.

Jen Glantz: She did it right. That’s how you, but that’s also how you know that like. This couple is good and chill because they were able to look at a situation like this and not panic and they were able to figure out a way to get through it.

Christa Innis: Yeah, and this is one of the things I talk about too, like in different like videos and stuff is like I get sometimes brides being like, oh my gosh, your video stressed me out. Like I don’t want wedding to be like that. And I’m like, no, I’m telling you, most of the time there’s no drama or people don’t know about it. Like it would be something so small and you just talk about it later. But if you go in with like. In your mind, like, okay, something will go wrong today. It’s bound to happen. There’s gonna be something, right? But if you tell yourself that, then you’re just gonna be like, oh, okay, okay. The dress needs to be steamed and we’re gonna be a little late. Or, oh, so and so’s Uber didn’t show up. You know, like there’s always gonna be something. But like if you’re just like, what can you do? Make the best out of a situation and go roll with the punches, right.

Jen Glantz: So true. I think. Yeah, exactly. Like you said, people have to go into it knowing that at least three things will go wrong. It just things happen in threes. Three things most people won’t know. You might not even know, and that’s good too, but there’s no such thing as a perfect day. I mean, these things happen. It’s life.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. And too, like we were talking about, is like I dramatized a lot of the skits while some Yes, I’m sure happened just like that at weddings. Um, like for example, there was like two, like two pretty small things. I wouldn’t say small. Drama ish moments that happened at our wedding, but we didn’t know, like us as the bride and groom, no one told us it happened until like weeks after.

They were like, oh, by the way, so and so said this to so-and-so. And then we were like, wait, what? And so they kept us out of it. So if you’re listening to your guests at a wedding, always keep the bride and groom out of it. Don’t tell them about little dumb things that happen. ’cause at the end of the day, like it doesn’t matter and don’t let it affect their day.

Jen Glantz: No. And if you’re in the bridal party, don’t tell the bride anything until like exactly like a week later. But yeah, I see sometimes made of actors or bridesmaids will like run up to tell the bride. I’m like, oh no, no. Like keep them out of this. They don’t need to know. It makes them just feel a lot better not knowing the truth.

Christa Innis: Yeah, absolutely. Um. She said go, but wait, there’s more. When we finally got back inside, someone had thrown out our dinner plates. Why? Why is someone trying to ruin this wedding? Crazy. Yeah. Um, and people had already started raid the dessert table. We didn’t have a cake, just two chocolate fountains, one with white chocolate for me and one with milk chocolate for my husband.

Interracial couple goals. Um, so she says the caterer had to rearrange everything to make the couple table look full again, so we could have our, our cake moment when we dipped and fed each other. As the party kept going, we noticed a woman dancing like she was having in the time of her life. Neither of us recognized her, so we assumed she was someone’s plus one.

We were wrong. It was the estranged wife of one of my husband’s friends. She found the invitation and decided to crash the way.

Jen Glantz: God. Okay. This is like a wedding where it’s like bad things happen in threes, but this is like, we’re at like six, like this is crazy, crazy. At that point, I’d just be like, okay, invite the fire truck crew, like whatever.

At this point, you know, all can come in who sees an invitation and is like, yeah, I’m gonna go, but I’m not invited. Like, that’s ballsy.

Christa Innis:  That is really ballsy. Yeah. Just be like, you know what? I’m gonna stir up some drama. I mean. I, it’s, there’s no drama about her. I guess she just showed up, so,

Jen Glantz: Yeah. Yeah. And when you look at the perspective of this whole day, that’s like the least dramatic thing. So it’s like, okay, great. Like we have a wedding crasher, but also I was locked in a closet. The fire department was here. There’s no food. The desserts ruined. Like perspective wise, we’re like, let her stay, like let her have her best time here. She’s welcome.  

Christa Innis: Yes, yes. Um, she said it’s been five years and people still talk about how ours was one of the best weddings they ever attended, despite all the chaos, and honestly, I have to agree, we laugh about it every time we tell the story.

It makes a really good story to like just tell people. I love that. Like every little thing that happened, they were able to just like laugh about it and be like, we’re a fun couple. We don’t care. This is not gonna bring us down. I love it.

Jen Glantz: I mean, honestly. A lot of weddings are the same, and you leave them and you’re like, well, that was it. Like that was like the last one. And like you hear a story like this and imagine like going home and telling people this story, like it makes it fun. I don’t know, it’s not like I don’t wish bad things on anybody, but like I do think when hiccups like this happen, they do make for good stories and memories for people.

And the last thing you want, I think, when you’re planning a wedding is for people to leave and be like, it was generic. Like it was just, you know, okay. Like you kind of want them to have like a moment to talk about, obviously not. So dramatic like this, but yeah, I feel like, but something people are, yeah, yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I mean I feel like the dancing in the parking lot where the de like that is so fun and the fact that like they just thought quickly. It’s also a sign that she hired some great vendors because I feel like I know vendors that would not be as like, no. You’ve heard, I’m sure you’ve seen or heard stories too, or you just, there’s some vendors that are just very like, this is it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jen Glantz: Yeah, no, I, it shows that she had like good vendors, good people at her wedding, good partner. She had a lot of good, and I think if you have a lot of good going for you, it’ll outweigh anything that happens at your wedding.

Christa Innis: Yeah, totally. Um, yeah, that’s like another note for people that are listening. ’cause like I’ve heard even weddings about like. It down pouring, but it still just ends up being this beautiful day and they just like dance in the rain or they like have beautiful photos and everyone’s just like sopping wet and they’re just like, but it was amazing. Like if you’ve got good vibes and you’ve got that good energy, it’s gonna be amazing no matter what.

Jen Glantz: I agree. I agree.

Christa Innis: Awesome. Well that was a crazy story. I’m like picturing it as like a movie. All these like little like things that happen like. Insane. Wild.

Jen Glantz: I give her a lot of credit. I think she made the best of it and I think it’s a true testament to other people. Like, go with the flow, it’s gonna be okay. And yeah, there’s things that are gonna happen that you just can’t plan for.

Christa Innis: Absolutely. Okay. I like to end these with, um, weekly confessions. So people send me confessions on Instagram, so I’ve got a couple here that we’ll just react to, um, at the very end here. Okay. Um, wedding planning landed. My mom and I in therapy six years to this day, don’t, and we don’t talk about it.

Jen Glantz: Yeah.

Christa Innis: that’s rough. Like we were just talking about, weddings can bring out the worst in people, but can also just bring out all these like unresolved emotions. ’cause I feel like it’s all this one day different personalities coming together, finances, starting new lives. It’s, it’s a lot.

Jen Glantz: It’s not the wedding. This was gonna happen either way. Just the wedding. Propelled it forward, unfortunately, yes.

Christa Innis: Um, it says, my middle sister and I missed our eldest sister’s wedding ceremony because of a traffic jam. Ooh, that is some traffic jam.

Jen Glantz: I know. I’ve seen that happen. I’ve seen it happen. And then the couples like, well, do we push the ceremony back and wait for people? But like, there’s a timeline. Uh, it happens like we did not go to my, my husband’s brother’s wedding. There we’re all very close with him. We did not go because my 2-year-old had 105 fever. Yeah. And we couldn’t go, like we just physically, my, my husband ended up going, but we couldn’t go. And it was like so hard to explain people without kids. It was so hard to like explain the situation. But in my head I’m like, I know this is the biggest day of their life, but like there will be other days, I’m like, this is like a circumstance we can’t control. And I think you have to kind of let that go and people miss it or they can’t go. ’cause of like these crazy circumstances, forgive, because they try Like you try your hardest.

Christa Innis: Yeah, you gotta try. Yeah. And you can’t, you can’t hold on to like a, like a grudge. Hopefully. I mean, she doesn’t say too much other than that, but it’s like hopefully the sister doesn’t hold on Grudge and. If it was just a ceremony, maybe there’s a reception after and they all, you know, dance the night away.

Jen Glantz: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Um, our flora, this last one says our florist was shut down by the IRS the week of our wedding. No notice and no help.

Jen Glantz: Hmm. That’s tough because like you already spent the money. It’s hard to find. Some in the week of flowers are like a decent part of the wedding. That is. That is like really tough. That happens though. Like your vendors are businesses, they’re people like things. Things happen.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Jen Glantz: But there will be someone who can come pick up the pieces. Like you can always try to find a solution, even if it’s on a wedding vendor, like try to look outside the box or event people or just like people who are like learning, like amateur people who can kind of step into the role and make it better for you.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It sucks when there’s like something like that that happens. I had people that happened to a friend of ours with a vendor, like they went bankrupt and like closed like a month before their wedding was supposed to happen, and it was like. Scramble. Like, let’s see what we can do.

Jen Glantz:  It’s awful. My heart goes out because that’s like the last thing you wanna deal with the week before your wedding. Yeah.

Christa Innis: Oh my gosh. Totally. All right, well thank you so much for coming on. Before we sign off, do you have any like crazy, like what’s a hot take you have about weddings? I know you have, you have something that you’ve shared before.

Not to put you on the spot, if you have one. Um, what’s like a hot take that you.

Jen Glantz: You don’t need bridesmaids. I think in five to 10 years, bridesmaids will be extinct. Have your friends be there for you in the ways that they can and the ways that you want. But they don’t need the official title. They don’t need to walk down the aisle.

They don’t need the bridesmaid dresses. They don’t need any of that.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Jen Glantz: All right. I love that.

Christa Innis: Well, where can everyone thank you so much for coming on. Of course. Like it was so much fun hanging out with you and meeting you officially. I feel like we like already know each other. It’s so weird how sometimes like internet.

No. ’cause you like see people and you like watch their content, but where can people follow you of course and keep up and what’s like the next kind of thing you’re working on?

Jen Glantz: People can find me @bridesmaidforhire.com. I’m on TikTok at Instagram at Bridesmaid for Hire. I have a newsletter called 1-800-BRIDESMAID and my book is called Finally the Bride.

You can find it on Amazon. It’s a lot of crazy stories you haven’t heard before, and thank you for the support and thank you for having me on the show.

Christa Innis: Awesome. Yeah, definitely. I wanna check out your book as well because I. I feel like you have so many crazy stories and I feel like I would, I’ve seen so many of your, I think I’m on your, your email list too, where I’ve seen like some of the stories that people send in and, um, your advice for bridesmaids. So any brides should definitely go check it out. Well, thank you so much.

Jen Glantz: Thank you. Yay.

by Christa Innis

Relationship Red Flags, Family Dynamics, and a Shocking ICU Revelation with Kate Gray, LMFT

My new book Here Comes the Drama: A Ferris and Sloan Story is live!

Get the book!

“You’re just the mother of his child.”

That one sentence cut deeper than any legal document could fix. When a tragic motorcycle accident left her partner in a coma, our storyteller learned the hard way what “not being married” really meant. What followed? A secret wedding, a livid mother-in-law, and a decades-long family rift and guest Kate Gray dissect this jaw-dropping submission with raw empathy, real questions, and a heavy dose of “WHAT just happened?” They unpack what happens when legal ties or the lack of them collide with family loyalty and personal boundaries.

Also in this episode: ruined wedding invites, Karen-level MIL energy, and the emotional weight of doing what’s best for your own future  even if it means letting go of your past. If you’ve ever doubted whether the legal stuff really matters, this story will have you rethinking everything.

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Episode Chapter Markers

00:00 Introduction

01:11 Discussing Complicated Family Dynamics

01:51 Guest’s Professional Background

02:32 Marriage and Family Therapy Insights

08:00 Wedding Planning Stress and Family Dynamics

17:11 Rapid Fire: Red Flags or Normal Stress?

36:45 Navigating Family Boundaries

37:36 Story Submission: A Life-Changing Accident

40:42 The Aftermath and Family Dynamics

49:59 Reflections on Marriage and Family

54:58 Confessions and Regrets

Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments

  • Life-Changing Crash – A traumatic brain injury left her partner in a coma… and her completely powerless.
  • Locked Out of the ICU – Despite living together and raising a child, she was denied access to his medical care by his own mother.
  • Secret Wedding Surprise – They threw a barbecue that turned into a surprise wedding… and the MIL didn’t know until the cake rolled out.
  • Family Fallout – What followed was over a decade of strained family dynamics, emotional boundaries, and financial detangling.
  • Power of Legal Ties – Kate and Christa explore how love, legality, and next-of-kin status affect real lives in unexpected emergencies.
  • Enmeshment & Control – What happens when parents can’t emotionally separate from their adult children?
  • Boundaries vs Protection – Should you tell your partner everything—even when it might hurt them?
  • MIL Chaos Strikes Again – Christa shares the viral story of a MIL destroying wedding invites out of spite.

Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode

  • “The wedding is kind of the test… the precursor to the marriage.” – Christa Innis 
  • “You’re starting your own family—and you have to get in the habit of making decisions for that family.” – Christa Innis 
  • “This is your moment. You can be a little selfish.” – Christa Innis 
  • “You never think about what happens in a tragedy… until you’re in one.” – Christa Innis
  • “Do what you want. Everyone else will get over it.” – Christa Innis
  • “Marriage means someone else is making huge decisions about your health—this stuff matters.” – Kate Gray
  • “You can have boundaries as adults. You don’t have to be terrorized in your own home.” – Kate Gray 
  • “It’s wild how many of these stories come down to family systems and emotional enmeshment.” – Kate Gray 
  • “People are shocked to find out these things have names—and that they’re not alone.” – Kate Gray 
  • “When it comes to relationships, there isn’t always one truth—but there is one choice: yours.” – Kate Gray

About Kate:

Kate Gray, better known online as Codependency Kate, is a couples therapist, married mom, and refreshingly real voice on all things relationships. With a deep understanding of family systems, emotional boundaries, and the unspoken chaos behind “normal” wedding and marriage dynamics, Kate offers the kind of education you wish someone had given you sooner. Her mission? To help you stop blaming yourself and start understanding the why behind your relationship struggles. Kate doesn’t just talk theory, she gets into the messy, emotional, behind-the-scenes stuff that can make or break partnerships, especially when family dynamics, trauma, or toxic in-laws get involved. Her content bridges the gap between formal therapy and real-life application, empowering listeners with language, tools, and clarity to protect what matters most.

Follow Kate Gray:

Join the Drama with Christa Innis:

Got Wedding Drama? We Want to Hear It!

Your stories make Here Comes the Drama what it is! Share your unforgettable wedding tales, hilarious mishaps, or unbelievable moments with us. Whether it’s a wild confession or a story worth a skit, we can’t wait to hear it.

Submit your story today: Story Submission Form

Follow us on social media for updates and sneak peeks at upcoming episodes. Your stories inspire the drama, the laughs, and the lessons we love to share!

A Team Dklutr Production

Blog Transcript:

Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Christa Innis: Hi Kate. Thank you for being here. Hi, nice to see you. I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yes, I’m so excited. Like I was saying before we started recording, you came up on my feed strolling and you were talking about difficult relationships with mother-in-laws and daughter-in-laws. And you talk about so many complicated relationships in marriage and family.

And so that’s why I thought you are perfect to come on because we see a lot of these issues, I should say, I dunno if that’s the right term, but come up in these stories that we read. And so I thought from a professional standpoint and we can kind of, you know, chat about other stuff as well. But um, before I get too into my fangirling and being really excited about your work, can you just tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you do?

Kate Gray: Yes, so I’m a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I also make content under the handle codependency, Kate. Um, I’m so passionate about education. Like you said, there’s, these are huge issues and people don’t really talk about them except venting to their friends. You know, people don’t really understand the background behind things.

Family Drama Starts with “I Do”

And when I was in school to be a therapist, I was learning all this stuff. I was like, oh my gosh, everyone needs to know this. Why am I. Learning this now, this is so important. And so that’s when I started posting on social media, was in grad school to purely educate. And it’s just kind of turned into a thing, especially around, um, estrangement specifically, um, just because there’s so many, there’s so much stuff happening between marriages and in-laws.

It’s so complicated and complex and no one knows what to do. And so I just try to zoom out and educate people on family systems theory and dynamics so that they can be more informed, take this information to their friends and family, to their own relationships. Obviously parallel to a, um, you know, going to a therapist themselves.

But, uh, yeah, so that’s what I just try to do with the platform that I have.

Christa Innis: Yeah. No, I think that’s so good because like I was saying, in so many of these stories, it’s like. Something might happen completely outta left field. Like the husband could have a great relationship with his mom, great relationship with his fiance, and the second, you know, they get engaged or get married, there’s a flip.

Yes. Um, and so I think a lot of times people don’t know to prepare for that or like how to prepare for that. So is this something that you see a lot in your work where there it’s just kind of like, um, or you’ve studied a lot in your work where it’s like there’s a, there’s a switch because it’s a dyna, like a power shift and it’s like, oh, he has a new family.

Like where does that come from? Sometimes,

Kate Gray: yeah, it’s tough. It’s, you know, every situation is different, but it’s also not, you know, there’s definitely themes at play. Um, you know. What I have seen in my work with clients. So, ’cause it’s different, my work with clients and then a lot of stories I hear online, you know, there’s very different audiences here, but I’ve definitely seen this a lot.

I think what happens is, yes, there is a different, a totally different dynamic at play. I think what happens is an outsider coming in, it kind of reveals existing dysfunction or existing, um, power imbalances. Just very complex, complex, nuanced things that have existed for a long time. It’s all people in this dynamic know, like say the, a new husband and his mom, they’ve been in this dynamic, you know, his whole life.

He, it’s all he’s known, but then his wife comes into the picture and it kind of challenges that relationship and it shouldn’t, in healthy families, it doesn’t. It’s a, you know, a new daughter-in-law, for example, is a welcome addition. There’s the things are already set up to be successful, but in it’s, again, in these dysfunctional dynamics when things go awry, when a new person’s introduced.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And I find, and not to like, I don’t know, if not oversimplify as a thing, but not, or not to group some, I should say. Right. I find a lot of times in the stories, I feel like the husband or the partner, the male partner I should say, in heterosexual relationships. Yeah. Seems to be very, um, I don’t wanna say docile, but he seems to be like passive.

Yeah. Like more passive. Like, we don’t hear a lot of him in the story. It’s more of like, he’s go with the flow. And so like, I think it’s. He grows up, he’s good with the flow, he pleases, you know, he is good to his parents. And then if there’s someone in comes in and she’s maybe a little more strong headed or she’s not afraid to like stand up for herself, I find that’s when there’s usually like a.

Some that’s, there’s buffer contention. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Gray: Uhhuh, are you saying, um, between her and his family or, yes.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Or like, yeah, if like, the mom’s kinda used to, you know, the son being very like, go with the flow and, um, I just find a kind common theme, like when I have people on here and we react to these stories, they’re like, where’s the partner?

Where’s the fiance? You know, you hear like, this bride rides in and she’s like, this happened, or like, the mother-in-law cornered me or she yelled at me and they’re like, where’s the fiance?

Kate Gray: And it’s kind of no position. And that is the question that is the question I asked too. Because he’s not necessarily in the middle, but he is the link between her and his family.

She, you know, I did a video where I drew this kind of in a, not a di, like a, it’s called a genogram, where you just kind of draw it and she, there’s the parents up top, the son below them, and then she’s to the side of him. You know, like she’s not another child of his parents and they’re not totally separate and she, you know, so roles are very important.

The concept of roles. And that is the question is what is the fiance doing here? What is this dynamic? There’s a lot of reasons, you know, if you go a little deeper, there’s a lot of reasons why he’s that way, and that’s kind of the dynamic shift that has to happen. He has to step into a, a different role and that I, I guess, you know, a lot of men I think don’t talk about that.

General. Mm-hmm. So they just kind of are overwhelmed by these, these women, these strong-willed women. And, um, women can get a really bad rap when the real core issue is a more passive fiance in that role.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely makes sense. So one of the biggest things we were talking about in wedding stories is like the overbearing mother-in-law, or, you know, and, and it’s funny ’cause a number of times I’ll say like, it’s a mother-in-law, people immediately are like, well the bride’s mom is, you know, can be this way too.

And I’m like, well, mother-in-law could be either the groom or the bride’s mom. It’s just Oh yeah. Whoever’s perspective uhhuh. But so many times people hear mother-in-law and they just assume, oh, it’s the groom’s mom. Um, but I always like to like reiterate that. Yeah. So why do you think things like a planning a wedding, I’m sure it’s like high stress levels, but

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Bring out this controlling or kind of boundary pushing behavior on, on the mother’s part or parents’ part.

Kate Gray: Yeah. Well I think what I have seen recently is there is there are very big generational differences in the concepts of weddings. Um, I think in the past, mothers in-law and, you know, grandmothers have planned the whole thing or, or they’ve waited their whole lives to do this for their child.

And the daughter, for example, hasn’t been very involved. Everything’s just been picked for her and it’s just done for her. Mm-hmm. Whereas now I think brides wanna be the bride. They wanna make those decisions and for her parents to, um, not just be more in the passenger seat or the backseat and her not be in the passenger seat or backseat.

So I think that’s one part of it. Um. And I think another part of it is that people have this idea of wedding planning being an amazing thing, and it’s so much fun and it brings everyone together. It brings out the best in everyone, and that it’s just not, it’s just not the case. It’s not the case. It’s kind of one of the first big family events that happens after, you know, high school graduation, college, you know, graduation or big family events.

So it can just bring out everybody’s stress responses. And people I don’t think are prepared for that. There’s a lot of management. There’s also. It’s a new stage for the fiances to come together on. That should be the point is to, this is kind of their first endeavor together where they’re managing all these things because the, the development stage that they are in as a couple from the family life cycle point of view is leaving and cleaving from their families of origin to come together.

So it’s this like detachment phase and I think that’s just really scary and unknown. There’s, there’s loss in it for parents. Mm-hmm. And so it’s just a whole thing that people don’t, aren’t

Christa Innis: prepared

Kate Gray: for.

Christa Innis: Right. And it’s so complicated. I’m sure you see it in your work all the time. ’cause it’s like definitely there’s nothing that’s black and white because Right.

I have heard stories where. Like the mother-in-law has cried over an engagement, but yes, maybe the partner really, really was terrible to their son or daughter. And so it’s just that that’s their reaction. So I wanna make people know too, like, it’s not, it’s not always the parent that they, they can see things too.

Like, okay, yeah, this person’s terrible to my son or daughter. And they’re scared.

Kate Gray: Yeah. And they’re

Christa Innis: scared. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, it’s definitely nuance. There’s so many different, um mm-hmm. Different aspects of that, but for couples that are maybe going through a difficult relationship with, you know, in-laws as they kind of move forward in the next stage, what, how did you recommend they set clear boundaries?

Um, you know, whether it’s before the wedding or kind of moving into their new life together so that there’s not like a total like blow up.

Kate Gray: It’s really tough, I think. The stuff is so hard for people to do on their own. They, I would really, I mean, I think therapists could have a whole like sector and there might even be one of like engagement counseling or like wedding planning counseling because it’s so stressful.

There’s so much to manage and it’s really easy for people’s stress responses and kind of lack of emotion regulation and, and all that stuff to come out. Mm-hmm. And there’s so much pressure and expectations and personalities to manage that. I think first of all, meeting, like having a therapist, having a third party that is separate from the family.

Like not necessarily a wedding planner ’cause they’re not qualified to be doing this stuff. But like, um, just I think being on the same page is the most important thing in this process, I think. ’cause from my experience too, people that have been married 10 years have trauma from their engagement and from their weddings with their in-laws, with their families.

Just with one partner. Not stepping up. Not stepping in, or one person doing too much. There’s, you know, it can be, it can magnify existing dynamic issues. And so getting married and, and having a wedding is not just about the wedding, it’s about starting a healthy dynamic. And, and kind of fixing things.

Maybe that, or just getting ahead of things that you don’t foresee, or just having someone guide you, I think is, takes a lot of pressure off figuring all of that out yourself, so, right.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Because I think a lot of couples see it as like, oh, it’s this big party, it’s gonna be easy. They don’t think about finances like putting together this big party where it’s like, yes, it’s not unlimited money, first of all.

Yeah. It’s like your first time maybe like putting money together for something big or uhhuh having people that are very opinionated from different sides coming together and, and that can be a stressor and mm-hmm. Yeah. Hearing a lot of these stories, I’m like, I feel so grateful that our families just got along well and like, I get along with my mother-in-law.

Great. And so it’s just, it’s, it’s difficult when, um. These relationships kind of come together and it’s like, okay, how do we make, you can’t make everybody happy, but how do we do the best at keeping, keeping as much peace as we can.

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Um, yeah. And from, and from your, your perspective too, it’s like how much is keeping the peace too much like right.

Like when is it like, when are you bending over backwards

Kate Gray: too much? Exactly. Like when is it no longer about you? Mm-hmm. And I think that is what can be really sad in these situations is like. You know, if a bride, for example, is used to keeping the peace, but then for her wedding, she actually has all these ideas that she’s wanted and she’s used to caving.

And unfortunately, this is the one situation where like she’s shaking things up and it causes problems. You know, all her worst fears can come true in these situations. Um, so I am of the advocate of a wedding planner, a therapist, a you know, your bridesmaids, your groomsmen, everyone like supporting you, um, enlisting all the emotional support you can.

’cause it is just a, it’s really tough. It can, I won’t say like make or break something, but I think it’s just important to start off, you know, on a good foot with your in-laws and with your own family. ’cause it, you know. It can just set the tone for things. Yeah. Or it can be something to come back from.

And that’s just, that just sucks. That sucks. Oh, for sure.

Christa Innis: Yeah. If you have a bad wedding experience, it can carry with you forever. Mm-hmm. I mean, some of these stories that, that were sent to me happened 20, 30, some 40, 50 years ago.

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Christa Innis: On things. They’ll send me messages and be like, this happened. It was like, I don’t know, whatever.

It was like a cake was changed last minute and it was something that they couldn’t eat or, you know, whatever it was. Or flowers were changed or she was told she looked fat in her dress. You know, like there’s been so many crazy things that were sent to me and they’re like, I still remember it and I remember how I felt and, um.

Someone like, you know, if someone put them down. And so I feel like if you start on the, having that middle ground, like what you’re talking about, um, and it’s funny that you bring up wedding planner ’cause I had a wedding planner on once and she’s like, I feel like half the time I’m a therapist.

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Literally. She, she should go to school. No, actually that is, she’s a buffer. I mean, they are a buffer between, you know, and I, I think they’re really valuable ’cause they have to advocate, you know, their, their job is what the bride and groom want. And so I think they can be really healthy. A really healthy addition to the planning crew.

Um, yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh.

Red Flag or Just Wedding Stress?

Christa Innis: Okay. So I thought we would kind of switch things up a little bit. Yeah. Put together some rapid fire if you’re okay with this. Yeah. And it’s either a red, the options are red flag or normal stress. And if you wanna add a little bit to it, feel free. Okay. Um. Because I know, I don’t, I don’t wanna like put you in a corner or make you say something that you don’t wanna say either.

So, um, they’re just different like scenarios. And then just say if it’s a red flag or normal stress around what, okay. Okay. Okay. One partner says, let’s just do what my mom wants. It’s easier that way. Red flag. Red flag. Uh, the couple hasn’t had a single conversation about how they’ll split finances after the wedding.

Kate Gray: Ooh. Major red flag.

Christa Innis: Yeah. That’s tough. Yeah. I feel like that comes up a lot with stories too, where it’s like, this is the first big event and then sometimes they just, like, they expect their parents to pay for everything and then they go to the next stage and it’s like, but then I didn’t realize like.

This happened, or we can’t afford this, or they’ve never discussed it before.

Kate Gray: No, it’s tough because you’re, you’re expected, you’re, you have these huge decisions that like only 10 year married couples are like, have the foundation to make, and you’re making them immediately upon this huge commitment. So yeah.

That’s just tough. And so those conversations in general are so important. Yeah. Yes.

Christa Innis: Uh, okay. The bride’s mom says this wedding is as much mine as it is yours.

Kate Gray: Oh. I mean, I think that’s normal. I think that’s like, that comes up so much probably. Um, but yeah. Or for the bride, that’s, that’s sad. That’s a

Christa Innis: red flag.

Yeah. Um, one partner wants kids some someday the other doesn’t, but they say they’ll figure it out later.

Kate Gray: That’s a major red flag. That’s not, yeah.

Christa Innis: I see that happen so many times. Really, I’ve seen it. I, not a ton in stories, but I’ve just seen it like, um, stories like people posted like that, like either eventually one like changes their mind and then they, one wants kids when they both didn’t want kids before.

And I’m sure that just like sometimes happens, but I feel like that’s, like, that was like one of the biggest things my husband and I talked about before, getting married to make sure, yeah, of course,

Kate Gray: age. Well that’s a compatibility issue. Like that’s a fixed thing that, um, isn’t, you know, that’s not a dynamic issue, that’s a fixed thing and it can be just a symptom of something deeper.

But how, you know, the question is like, how do you resolve things that y’all are fixed on that are opposite? You know, like even religion, faith can be part of that too. Like that you’re fixed on these things.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. And

Kate Gray: you just think you’re gonna deal with it or it’s gonna get better. And that’s just, that’s, that’s definitely something to handle on the front end.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah. Um, the groom refuses to go to premarital counseling, counseling and says it’s a waste of time.

Kate Gray: Um, that’s tough. I mean, I, me, I’m like, red flag, red flag, red flag. But I, I think that’s probably very normal. I don’t know. Yeah. I think not going, not being open to counseling is a very much a red flag.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And I mean, I feel like if they’re having, and you might know this better from your, your profession than Yeah. Me just, no, it’s okay. But if they’re having the kind of issues where counseling would come up before and then they, he brings it, she brings it up and he’s like, no, to jump in knowing they might need some kind of.

Kate Gray: Yeah,

Christa Innis: exactly.

Kate Gray: I mean, it’s like if y’all can talk about anything and you resolve problems, then like saying no to counseling is like, okay. I mean, ’cause we don’t need it to solve problems, but if it’s just like, no, because I don’t wanna talk about anything and I don’t want outside guidance, that’s, that’s the red flag of it.

Christa Innis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The couple always avoids hard conversations by joking or changing the subject.

Kate Gray: Um, see, these are tough because that seems so, I’ve just, that’s so normal. I think for early on in relationships, people don’t really know how to deal with stuff. So I think that’s normal. I think that that is definitely gonna come out in their marriage, that’s gonna be magnified by it.

But um, yeah, that’s not an, an unfixable issue that I would say that’s very normal, but it’s definitely not good. Yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I feel like you can. Only joke so long before, like, something’s gonna be hard, like curious. And you have, well,

Kate Gray: there, there’s something called, um, I mean, just to be all nerdy real quick, there’s something called pseudo hostility, like fake hostility.

It’s like, that’s what you’re talking about, like the joking.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Kate Gray: And it is an indicator of like suppressed emotion and an inability to really resolve conflict and be vulnerable. Okay. So it’s like a really unhealthy dynamic and or like, um, behavior in general and it’s found in families. That’s where the term came from.

But, so it can be, it’s joking about real problems as an indicator of that, but again, it’s, it’s something that’s very fixable with a therapist or with just, you know, this podcast.

Christa Innis: So yeah, just chatting about it. Yeah, because I feel like I’ve known people before that are just very, like, that’s like their personality is like the comic relief.

So it’s like even when things are like serious, they like wanna throw a little like. Comic in there.

Kate Gray: Yeah. And that’s how comedians are born. Yeah. I

Christa Innis: I feel like that’s a lot of, like, when you hear like deeper stories about comedians, it’s like a lot of times they just have to laugh to get through things,

Kate Gray: literally.

Yeah. And that’s, I mean, it’s not an unhealthy thing when you can do that. But if you only can do that and you can’t be vulnerable and you can’t talk about your feelings and you can’t receive criticism, for example, then that’s when it becomes an issue. And that’s when that term applies. It’s not just about joking and being funny, um, or even lightening the mood sometimes.

But if you can only do that when it’s tense, you know, you think about. People that like bust out laughing at like funerals and stuff. Like, it’s like there’s response. Yeah. It’s like, um, is that how, you know? It’s just those things just invite curiosity. It’s not to like pathologize people or to say, you know, if you do this, there’s something wrong with you.

It’s just an indicator of like, something to be curious about if you’re having issues in relationships or, or if, if this is a, a pattern for you.

Christa Innis: Interesting. Wow. I’m, I’m learning so much. Oh, okay. Um, a partner deletes texts from a parent they know that the other wouldn’t approve of, oh

Kate Gray: man, this is, these are so hard.

’cause they seem very normal. ’cause it sounds the person would be trying to protect their partner. I think people do this with good intention, but at the same time, I think that’s not a good habit to get into. In a marriage. So that’s a red flag.

Christa Innis: Yeah. ’cause for someone like that, like if someone’s deleting texts, that means in some way they’re, and you can’t control the other, what the parent does, but in some way they’re allowing them to talk negatively about their partner.

Right. Right. Or they’re not setting us clear boundary of like, Hey, if you talked that way, we’re, we’re done. Yeah. Or we’re gonna limit.

Kate Gray: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. That’s right. But I also, on the other side of the spectrum, I have, in my experience with people, there’s been way too much transparency and this, their partner is like scarred for life by what the parents said.

Yeah. So there is like. Transparency isn’t necessarily, you know, there it, there’s nuance here. It just depends on what they’re saying, you know, like mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I think the general, like the habit of deleting texts is sketchy and is definitely a red flag. Mm-hmm. In a relationship in general.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

That’s interesting. Yeah. You say that because Yeah, I know. I’m thinking about that now because, um, there was a story that a girl sent me, and this was not about a mean text necessarily, and actually podcast and she talked about it, but Oh, mother-in-law, um, yeah, she was anonymous. She turned the camera off.

Uh, so we reacted to her story and then she was like, maybe we’ll have a part two because I’m going dress shopping with her. And so I had her come on and kind of share what happened, but basically she was demanding to know the location of their wedding venue, and this was like. Far from where they lived.

They haven’t actually seen it personally yet. She’s like, well, I just wanna drive by and go see it. And they’re like, it’s a private property, you can’t. And she’s like, we sent you the location so you can kinda see pictures. And she goes, well, I delete texts. And she like went to this whole thing about how like, I delete texts, just tell me the address so I can show up and go.

And she kept pushing, pushing. It was like a long, crazy story, but she ended up like cornering her in the kitchen and was like, yeah, it was like this crazy thing. It’s still ongoing, like they haven’t gotten married yet, but, um,

Kate Gray: oh my goodness.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And so the delete texted made me think of that conversation because um, she just said like.

She would, the mother would delete texts in her phones and then claim not to have it anymore. Claim to not know that because the text was gone.

Kate Gray: That’s weird. Never heard of anything like that.

Christa Innis: I know. I was like, does she, does she work for the

Kate Gray: FBI? Why? Yeah. Seriously. Is she a CIA agent?

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah. So that was, wow.

Kate Gray: Interesting.

Christa Innis: Yeah. But that was one where, on her episode where she came on, she talked about they, she went through a lot of therapy herself. So like they did a good job of like keeping up with boundaries. Yeah. And it was where her husband just had a hard time of like standing up to his mom because I bet.

And so used to like running the household and now this new strong female voice comes in and she’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I’ve never been told no before, so, yeah.

Kate Gray: Yeah. Right. Which is, that’s a red flag. I’ll say that. Like, moms not being used to their adult children telling them no about things. That’s a red flag for Yeah.

Like when you’re, if you’re a fiance, you’re looking at your partner and their parent, and that’s the dynamic you see. It’s like that’s, those are, those are scary waters to enter into. Like you, that’s a scary situation. And I think their partners feel that, you know, they like get that sense. And I think that that brings out their own stress responses too.

Mm-hmm. Um, because there’s a powerlessness that children feel even when they’re adults with parents. Parents. And so that can just make them really scared and they, however they normally respond when they’re scared. So maybe they over control or they. You know, overcompensate in some ways. So it can just be tough.

Yeah.

Christa Innis: Interesting. Wow. Okay. Um, this one says, the bride says she doesn’t want the groom sister in the wedding and won’t explain why

Kate Gray: the bride says she doesn’t want the groom sister in the wedding. Oh. And she won’t explain why. Yeah. That’s part of it. That’s the part of it. That’s the red flag.

Christa Innis: Yeah. They won’t explain why.

’cause I feel like you don’t need to have your sibling or your partner’s siblings in the wedding. I feel like that’s a totally, there should be no pressure to have anybody in the wedding, but

Kate Gray: yeah.

Christa Innis: Why won’t you explain why?

Kate Gray: Yeah, why don’t you explain why, or like, why can’t they just be, I love the idea if that’s the case.

Like if, say you’re the bride and you don’t want your groom’s sister being a bridesmaid, but can she be a groomsman? I don’t know. Do you have this, the ultimate set? You know, can’t, is there some gray area here? Right. Like if

Christa Innis: he, I know. That’s what I think is interesting too, is like, I, I mean, I had my.

Husband’s sister and sister-in-law on his side. Um, sister-in-law on his side. I dunno if I said that right. But I mean, it’s our sister-in-law, but in the wedding, ’cause I’m like close with them. Yeah. But like, we have my brother ’cause like they’re not super close or anything. Okay. But I’ve seen it always and that, that’s like a weird thing.

But like, I, I don’t know. It’s interesting.

Kate Gray: Well, I think this can be an issue. So say the groom’s sister is rude to the bride or like they don’t get along or, or whatever. And so the bride’s just like, yeah. I mean, you’re not gonna be in our wedding party. Mm-hmm. Um. But I think that could also be like an, is a situation where fiance, they can come together where it’s like, Hey, I’m uncomfortable with her in my, on my side of things, you know, going on my bachelorette or like, and standing up there, that feels inauthentic to me.

But if you, you know, she’s your sister, you kind of get the say in what you want her to be in our wedding and we can talk about it. And so do you want her to stand up with you in a black dress? You know, like is there something, if your parents are gonna be really upset and embarrassed by that, like is there something we can do to get everyone a win-win scenario?

Um, yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Because what’s weird to me too is that she would have to explain to the groom almost like in my. My thought is if the bride and sister didn’t get along, the groom would already know that or know that there was some kind of weird tension. So like, let’s figure it out together. But if like, let’s say she secretly like hated the sister and was like, yeah, jealous of something, you know, whatever.

Then like that’s already, that’s a red flag because it’s like you’re not openly communicating with your groom. Like, oh, the sister did this to me. That’s

Kate Gray: the issue is like the not openly communicating.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. This one’s, there’s two more. One person does all the wedding planning because the other partner says they don’t care.

Kate Gray: Is that the most normal thing I’ve ever heard about this? Probably. I mean, but it’s a red flag. Like. I don’t know, what do they not care about? Is that part of the dynamic? Do they not care in general? Are they like, I never care about what we eat, and so the other person’s always responsible for figuring out what they eat.

Like is this the dynamic or is this just like, oh, I don’t like, you know, oh I don’t know, some, like, I don’t wanna do girly stuff, or some stupid stuff like that. What’s the deal about it?

Christa Innis: Yeah, because I feel like there’s a big difference between like, oh honey, you’re so good at this stuff, so I don’t care.

Like, do you like the pink or the green butter? You know, or it’s like, I don’t care.

Kate Gray: You know? Like the, yeah,

Christa Innis: how are they communicating it because exactly how

Kate Gray: are they communicating it? And you know, I think that that’s not. Yeah. I think again, it’s a, all these things seem like places, things to explore. Like is this just this situation or is this in general?

Or does this bother me? Does it bother me that they don’t care? Or am I happy they don’t care because I wanted to do it on my own anyway. You know, like Right. What I, how do you actually feel about it?

Christa Innis: Right. No, that’s a, that’s a great point. It’s so, these are so nuanced. Yeah. Because I’ve seen relationships before where the bride is like such a big planner and so she was like, I got this.

We’re good. Yeah. And he kind of just was there if she needed him, but that’s it. He was like, I don’t care. Pick, I will walk in for a wedding. You want, but then I’ve seen others where like the bride was stressed beyond belief and he went a finger and you’re like, that’s where I’m like, it’s your wedding too.

Right. Um, but I think a lot of times there’s those couples where they just assume like, oh, it’s the woman’s job to do all of it. Yes. Um. But

Kate Gray: I don’t know. And that’s again, like not a a bad, these things aren’t like inherently bad, but it’s like, how do you feel about them? Do you want them more involved? Is are there things you can do together?

Are there things that they really do care about or do they just not know? I think a lot of the time people don’t know what they don’t know. Yeah. And so you think you’re not gonna care about something, but you really end up caring about the food, or you really end up caring, like caring about the transportation from the venue to the reception.

You know, like, yeah. Is, is there an open mind there? For things to be, you know, to evolve as you learn more. Because I mean, when I planned my wedding, I didn’t know anything. I didn’t know what I, you know, how do you, how are you supposed to know when you’ve never done it before?

Christa Innis: Exactly.

Kate Gray: Yeah. So

Christa Innis: it’s a lot.

And I think people don’t realize, like, especially their first time going through everything and seeing like what they have to do, they’re just like, what?

Kate Gray: Yeah, there’s so many decisions.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And so all the comparison with social media and all stuff, it’s like you have to really shut out the noise of like, okay, do I want, uh, a golden arch because they have it on Pinterest, or do I want one because it would look cool for us, like, you know.

Exactly.

Kate Gray: Yeah, for sure.

Christa Innis: Okay, last one. A parent constantly criticizes their part child’s partner, but the partner just keeps the peace to avoid conflict.

Kate Gray: Yeah. Major red flag. First of all, why is a parent criticizing? I think that’s, so, I, I think things can be so backwards. Like parents should be there to be so supportive ’cause they know they’ve been through it and they know how stressful it is.

Mm-hmm. So it’s just crazy to me in general when parents are adding, they add stress even though they know they’ve been through it themselves. Um, so I think that’s the red flag is like parents criticizing in general. That’s definitely something to have a boundary around. Um, what was the rest of the question?

And the, uh, the partner just keeps the peace to avoid conflict. Yeah. And that’s another thing. Do they always do that? Do they do that with you? Do they do that at work? Do they do that with their friends? Are they always avoiding conflict? Because the thing about that is that it comes out sideways. It it does eventually, you know, people aren’t just like doormats, you’re human beings and emotions, you know, it’s gonna come out.

So, but it, but, or is this a situational thing where it’s just like, you know, let’s just get through this wedding. Like, I don’t even care. Let’s just get through this wedding. Right. That’s one thing. So, and it’s okay to make mistakes. It’s, you know, things are not irreparable. If you just, if the wedding is just, if you decide it’s not the time to deal with all these dynamics, then just make it easy for yourself.

You know? Like if you need to avoid it, do it, whatever. But as long as like you, um, yeah, I think just doing what you need to do at the time

Christa Innis: Yeah. Is

Kate Gray: how you leave these situations. Like not traumatized.

Christa Innis: Right. When they’re

Kate Gray: tough.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I don’t know how I would react to something like that, but yeah, if it’s something like you live across the country and you’re only gonna see ’em for this one day and you talk to them, okay, whatever, just like, we’re like, whatever.

But if you see them a lot and they’re constantly putting your partner down, like, let’s, boundaries.

Kate Gray: Yeah. Boundaries. Because that’s, you know, if a parent’s criticizing their partner, that can really make the kid feel undermined. Like, Hey, you don’t trust my decisions. Like, I, I wanna hear your feedback, but I’m, all I’m hearing about them is this, and that’s making me not trust your opinion because they’re both good and bad.

Like, they definitely have stuff, but it, it’s, it feels reflective of me and what you think about me and my decision. So yeah, that can be something important to communicate. But again, if this isn’t the time, then don’t like just deal with it later.

You’re Just the Mother of His Child

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Now let’s get to everyone’s favorite part of these episodes, and that’s this week’s story submission.

So here we go. Okay. It’s Blind React. I’ve not read it, so, okay. What we got. Okay. You know how people say you don’t need a piece of paper to prove your love? That was us until life taught us otherwise. We met in the mid nineties, in our early twenties and clicked instantly. Within a few months, we were living together.

The next year we experienced a miscarriage, and not long after I was pregnant again, our Rainbow baby was born the following spring. By the end of that year, we bought a house together, and still we had no plans to marry. We were anti traditional and didn’t think a certificate mattered. Then everything changed.

In the summer of 2000, my partner was riding his motorcycle and hit a full. Hit at full speed while making a, and was, I’m sorry, and was hit at full speed while making a legal turn. He suffered a traumatic brain injury and was in co a coma for three weeks. Oh my gosh. His helmet saved his life, but it was a long road ahead because we weren’t legally married.

His mother stepped in and told the doctors she was next of kin. This is, oh my gosh. Wow. Oh my God, this is so bad. This is terrible. Oh, she explicitly told them not to speak to me. How do you, that stuff, this is like something that’s so complicated that I never would’ve even thought about.

Kate Gray: Wow. Like, yeah, we just

Christa Innis: automatically assume your partner for that long.

Having kids together, like. That’s your person you like

Kate Gray: earned your right? Like in Yeah. In all in their eyes too. Yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Uh, she said I understood she was heartbroken, but I had been his partner for years. We shared a home, we were raising a toddler, and yet I was completely shut out. Wow. Oh my gosh. She even looked me dead in the eye and said, “You’re just the mother of his child.”

Oh. This is probably one of the tragic stories I’ve read on here. Um, that sentence has never left me. Yeah. A single piece of paper would’ve spared me so much pain. Mm. Thankfully we had an incredible nurse who saw what was really going on. I showed proof that we lived together and she let me sneak our son into the ICU to see his dad.

Mm. So the, the grandma was even keeping the, the son away sounds like,

Kate Gray: oh my gosh.

Christa Innis: Within four days, he woke up. I truly believe that visit made a difference. The bond between them has only grown, grown stronger since. Eventually he came home and made an incredible recovery. About 95% of who he was before the accident.

I didn’t tell him what happened while he was in the hospital. I just wanted him to heal. Oh. So this is interesting ’cause it kind of relates to what we were talking about, about like protecting your partner. Mm-hmm. But this is like the opposite way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So she’s almost protecting him from his own mother.

What’s her take on that? Like, ’cause I am, I’m also wondering how involved this grandma is in their life. Yeah.

Kate Gray: For

Christa Innis: and be like, no, he’s my next. I’m the next of kin.

Kate Gray: Yeah, exactly. My, I have a lot of questions. I’m like, I. If they didn’t get married, then there wasn’t a family, you know, then there wasn’t a wedding and there wasn’t this family event.

This like, I don’t know how much that matters, but like basically she wasn’t necessarily included in their formal relationship.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Kate Gray: And may, I’m wondering what their relationship was like before, you know? Mm-hmm. How involved she was, how not involved, what her relationship was like with her son. But yeah, so that’s what I have just context.

I want context to that. But you wanna really, you wanna demonize the mother-in-law in these situations, you know, like it’s easy to say, oh my gosh, what a terrible person. How could she do this and disrespect me like this?

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm.

Kate Gray: Um, yeah. And I wonder, again, that’s like zooming out. Is this a pattern where she like the.

The partner doesn’t share things with him to protect him. And is this just another thing, part of that, when this is something that he definitely needs to know?

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm.

Kate Gray: You know, they definitely need to figure out together.

Christa Innis: Yeah, because I feel like that would be my thought. Like I understand her concern with being like, you know what, let’s just focus on him healing.

But yeah, then I would also be like, what if something happens? Like where,

Kate Gray: yeah,

Christa Innis: he has a stroke. I don’t know. Just you think like something happens where like another life altering event. Of course you would hope like nothing happens after that, but like things happen and you know, then you’d be like, okay, how can I protect myself now I wanna talk to him because.

I wanna make sure we’re like on the same page moving forward or something.

Kate Gray: Yeah. Wait, did she say like, did she say that she didn’t tell him any of this? Is that what she said?

Christa Innis: So there’s still a little bit more, but she said so far, um, I didn’t tell him what happened while he was in the hospital. I just wanted him to heal.

Um mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Wait. And then right after it says, so I didn’t read this yet, but once, but once he was well enough to return to work, we started making secret wedding plans. Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Let’s, okay, let’s see where this goes. Okay. It says, we hosted a backyard barbecue that December. A few close friends and family knew it was more than just a cookout, but most didn’t.

Okay. So they did a surprise, oh my gosh. Wedding. Most didn’t including his mother.

Kate Gray: Wait, I, oh wait, his, so his mom didn’t know. Didn’t know that it was a secret wedding.

Christa Innis: Okay. I have so many thoughts now because I’m like, okay, was their relationship with the mom always bad or if the mom always made it clear that she did not like her, because now it’s like, I’m not gonna tell you what happened.

So you talk to your mom, we’re gonna have this wedding.

Kate Gray: Oh my gosh. I didn’t even think like retaliation basically, which like,

Christa Innis: obviously they’re gonna get married anyway, so I don’t want ’em to think I’m thinking that, but I’m just like, oh. She’s like, you did that to me while my husband watch

Kate Gray: this.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Watch this. I’ll prove you. How much like he’s my partner.

Kate Gray: Well, or I mean, or, or she just learned from that. Like, this woman is not safe for us to tell anything to, and we need her in a group of people so she’s not acting crazy that when it’s our moment. That’s such a good, that’s who. Because I, um, man, that is, that is, you can’t make that this up.

Like you cannot make this up. It’s wild. This is a wow

Christa Innis: story. Yeah. I’m like picturing it now. And that was such a good point about like being aware of like, okay, how could she act out if it was just us?

Kate Gray: Right.

Christa Innis: This way she’s gonna maybe, hopefully be on her best behavior. ’cause certain people like that aren’t gonna put on a show.

I mean, they might, some people might.

Kate Gray: Right. But if they did, there’s witnesses now.

Christa Innis: Yes,

Kate Gray: man. Like, we’re

Christa Innis: not the crazy ones. It’s not us. Yeah, exactly. Like now you see Yeah. Yeah. This is what we’re dealing with. Oh my gosh. Wow. Uh, she had no, oh, here we go. Okay. She had no idea it was a wedding until the cake came out.

She was livid. Oh my gosh. Oh. A year or so later, we paid off all of her debts and helped her move out. That’s a wait. Move out. Wait. Was the mom living with them? Did I miss something? Oh,

Kate Gray: because that would be crazy if the mom was living with them and she didn’t know they were getting married.

Christa Innis: Yeah. And like how long was, if the mom was living with them, how long was she living with them for that she then blocked out.

I’m so confused. Oh my gosh. Well, because it says best decision we ever made because they paid off her debts and helped her move out, so she was living with them.

Kate Gray: Oh wait. Helped her move out, wait. Paid off her debts and helped her move out. Yeah. Moved out of where? That’s the question.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Oh my gosh. It says our relationship with her stayed strained for over a decade.

She passed away in 2014, and since then life has been calm, happy, and drama free. Now we’re planning our 25th wedding anniversary, and this time it won’t be a surprise to anyone. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. That is

Kate Gray: a wild story. Wow. I’m feeling a lot of things about that. Yes. Well, wait, so backing up, when he got in that tragic accident, that was like, what?

Probably five years into their relationship? Is that like a general timeline? Probably. So

Christa Innis: they met mid nineties in the summer of 2000. Yeah. Yeah. So probably like five or so years. Okay. They had a toddler together, living together. Mm. Yeah, where was the mom and all this? Like did she live with

Kate Gray: Yeah, did she live with them?

Yeah. I, so my, so from a family systems point of view, remember that’s my context. ’cause like, I wanna be per, I wanna respond personally to this, but like, ’cause this is crazy, but not in a clinical way. You’re not crazy in a clinical way. Yes. But it’s still just like, what is this guy, you know, you said this at the beginning, like when people are like, oh, where’s the fiance?

People submit stories and they’re like, wait, where? Where’s the fiance? Where’s the husband? Where’s the partner?

Christa Innis: Yeah. And

Kate Gray: that’s what I’m wondering is like, what has he just been passive in this situation and mm-hmm. I don’t know. I think it’s so easy to be, you know, with these mother-in-laws that do these things, to be really scared of them.

And I mean. And let them dominate. You know, I think there gets to a point where it’s like you, you can have boundaries as adults. Like you can, you know, you don’t have to have her in your, your house. If she’s terrorizing you and you’re scared of her and you’re laughing at her behind her back, you know, like, so I don’t know, but.

That sounds,

Christa Innis: that’s what I’m confused about. Crazy. Like he had a good relationship with his mom, so he was like, oh, she’s fine, she’s harmless. But then maybe, right. It wasn’t until he was in the ICU that she became really terrible and was like, like actually a threat to their relationship.

Kate Gray: Yeah, yeah.

Christa Innis: Because you know, you hear like funerals and weddings and, you know, all those big life events bring out the worst in people. Right? Right. And so like, I mean, there’s so many cr I mean, I’m sure there could be a podcast about funeral things that happen with families, like being torn apart and money is, you know, there, there, you always hear about stuff like that.

And so that’s what makes me think of like, maybe the mom was playing nice and then she was like in tragedy brought up. Right. I don’t know.

Kate Gray: Yeah. Well, oh man, that’s so hard. That is so hard. I mean real life. And that’s why marriage relationships are so important to get right. Because life is crazy and there are huge things that happen like that, that alter things and alter relationships.

And so having a balance and having communication and resolving conflicts so that it all doesn’t come out in this one crisis, you know?

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm. Is

Kate Gray: so important because crises happen.

Christa Innis: Yeah. But yeah, and it’s um, I love that she shared this story ’cause it’s such a unique perspective and I feel like open people’s eyes up too because it’s kind of like a different perspective of the stories we usually get.

’cause you know, it’s usually like the wedding drama and the planning and stuff. So this was a very like, alternative kind of story. And I think it’s really interesting ’cause you never think like. In like a, in a tragic moment, like, what’s gonna happen? Or, you know, right. How would we handle that? Married or not?

How would we handle that situation? ’cause that’s gonna put, that can put stress on family. How is family gonna come in at that point? Um,

 

Do It Your Way

Kate Gray: well, yeah, and I think it depends. When I got married, I remember like a month after we got married and we’re home from and everything and it’s like really hitting you this commitment and this legal change.

And I was changing my name and I remember being like, I’m changing my social security card. Like, if I am in an accent, you, you are gonna be like, you know, who’s young at my age who doesn’t have experience with hospitals, you know, my mom’s a, a nurse and, um. I just remember like that, the gravity of that hitting me, you know, you just grow up like it, it’s just so much transition internally and in life.

And you’re like, oh my gosh. Like if I am in a car accident, you are gonna be making these decisions. Like this is crazy. Yeah. So I think there, you know, um, I, but I agree like with like what you’re saying just about how the, the legal thing like this, it matters. This marriage is, is this person is making these huge decisions and when health is on the line, I think that’s a time where like hard lines need, hard boundaries need to be there, like mm-hmm.

Or else there’s this situation right where the mom and the partner, like the wife or the, the partner Yeah. Are not, there’s no clear lines there. ’cause legally did the mom have the right, or I don’t even know what the laws are.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I don’t know. And I don’t know what state there, ’cause I’m sure it differs state to state too.

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Christa Innis: But it sounds like she probably had the legality because she was the mom, but I don’t know. ’cause it’s like if he’s over 18, doesn’t that kind of go away? I don’t know how that works. Yeah. Um, but I actually heard a crazy story. I don’t even know how long ago it was now. Um, and I’ll change up the story slightly to protect who they are, but, um, this couple was married for a long time.

They were going through a divorce and while they were going through a divorce, the man had a traumatic, like, I think I wanna say brain cancer, brain tumor. Mm-hmm. And it turns out that certain tumors can make you act different ways or like do different things. Mm. While that was happening, he had an affair with her sister.

It was, I know. It was crazy. And so while he was in the hospital, the sister and I, again, I don’t know the legalities or how this worked. Yeah. Uhhuh, um, I. This was like through a grapevine,

Kate Gray: Uhhuh,

Christa Innis: um, through, through the sister. The sister was not allowing the ex-wife to Oh, father of children. Father of the children, what?

25 years? Yeah. 

Kate Gray: Oh my gosh. 

Christa Innis: And I was just like, this was a long grapevine, but it was just like, what? Like how, like I, again, I don’t know, like the legalities of that because they were divorced, but he wasn’t with this new person legally. But I don’t know if she was just there when the injury happened or they like, did the surgery or what.

Oh my gosh. But the, like, those kind of things are just like, you don’t, you don’t think about that when you’re like, you know, I don’t know. Getting married or like all that stuff.

Kate Gray: No, no, you don’t. You definitely don’t. I’m watching, it’s funny we’re talking about this too. ’cause I’m rewatching, um, Grey’s Anatomy, so I’m like seeing all this stuff in episodes and um, but yeah, it really does make you think of the legalities.

’cause I think that is what they determine what they make those decisions based on. Right. Like the doctors have to know Yeah. Who’s next of kin and who’s formally next of kin.

Christa Innis: Right. Yeah. Because I know there’s been really sad stories where, um, a gay couple or something have been partners for a long time, but they, because they weren’t legally married, they refused to let a longtime partner of someone in the hospital room So crazy.

And I hope that’s changed in most cases, but I’m sure there’s gotta be some kind of like paperwork or something, I don’t know. Mm-hmm. How that works. Mm-hmm. But maybe next I need to have some like.

Kate Gray: Lawyer on it should have someone on here. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about that. Is there a lawyer listening? 

Um, okay. I know we’re about at the end of our time, so I always like to end this with confessions, weekly confessions that people send me. So here’s a couple that people sent in. It says, biggest regret was having a wedding instead of eloping like I wanted to. Mm. And I was told I would regret it later.

Kate Gray: That is so sad.

I hate when people, or it’s just sad when people project their own experiences and you don’t realize it’s them projecting and not everyone’s truth and not like a universal truth, you know?

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm.

Kate Gray: Oh, that’s tough. See, that’s why like, you have to make these times, you have to do what you wanna do, I think.

Christa Innis: Yeah.

Kate Gray: Because they’re so big.

Christa Innis: Totally. And I feel like when you tend to listen to everyone around you, but yourself, you’re gonna end up regretting it a hundred percent. Whether it want a big wedding and you went small or you went small and you want, you know, or I just said the same thing twice. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Um, or you, you don’t elope, but you really wanted to elope because you’re ultimately trying to please everyone else and you’re looking back. Exactly. Feel like, what was that for?

Kate Gray: Yeah. And it’s like if you do what you wanna do and it didn’t turn out the way you wanted to, you can learn. It’s not a, it’s not, I don’t think is as bad as if you listen to someone else over yourself.

’cause I think when you get married, like when you go into that stage of life. And you start your own family, whether you have kids or not. Like you’re starting your own family, that you have to get in the habit of making decisions for your family and for yourself and putting yourself first in that way.

That’s what’s best for your family. Mm-hmm. Is choosing yourself every day over everybody else. You know, obviously considering other people, but no one knows your family, no one knows you better than you know you.

Christa Innis: Mm-hmm.

Kate Gray: Even if you haven’t been some through something that other people have been through.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Yeah. You know, the way you just said it, I’m like, you know, the wedding is kind of like the test, like, kinda like the precursor into the marriage. ’cause everyone’s so focused on the wedding. Right. But it’s really the marriage, like that counts and I, I don’t know. Yeah. I can kind of say that to like, you know, your clients before, but I just feel like so many people focus on this like, you know, big day, right?

Yeah. The flashing lights and all that, but. It really is kinda like the precursor of like, how are we gonna handle stress? How are we gonna budget for this big event? Yes. How are all these strong personalities gonna come together and how will we deal with it? Because in our, you know, marriage, there’s gonna be trials and tribulations, there’s gonna be hard times, there’s gonna be great times.

Um, and so I feel like that’s kinda like a precursor of like, are we gonna listen to everyone else before us? Yes. Like, how are we gonna Well,

Kate Gray: yeah, and like I said, like I really do, when I’m thinking about it like this, I’m like, there. People don’t, I don’t know you. It’s crazy that this amount of pressure and this complex of a thing happens at the very beginning of a relationship because in life you’re never dealing with this type of thing again.

You know, unless you have children and there’s like, you live on a compound with your family. Like there, you know, there’s not this level of pressure, of personalities of, of involvement in your life and in your life decisions as there is when you’re married. So I wanna like, I feel like that would’ve been so helpful for me to understand of just like, this is kind of a one time thing.

You know, this. And like maybe if you, if you can get pregnant, if you wanna get pregnant, whatever the birth of your first child, like, I feel like those are kinda the two main first things. And then after that, people leave you alone in a way. And so just to know like if you’re feeling a lot of pressure, you can like chill because there’s nothing like this, I think other than funerals, you know?

Yes. Other, other things like that. But even, even then, you’re not the center of it a lot of times. So

Christa Innis: yeah. This is your, your time for it to be about you. You can be a little selfish. Um, yeah. And yeah. Kind of block out the extra it,

Kate Gray: It will be over, you know? Yes. But I agree with what you’re saying. Like it totally is a precursor for things and magnifies your dynamic.

Christa Innis: Yes. Yeah. A lot of, lot of personalities and thoughts and opinions coming in on this, on this one day. That’s Yeah. That can, uh, can make or break sometimes.

Kate Gray: Yeah. But do what you want.

Christa Innis: Yes. Do what you want.

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Um, this says, um, mother-in-law shared a video of Karen’s ruining weddings as a joke and warned me wait and said it was a warning from her wor from her words.

I don’t know how that. Mother-in-law shared a video of Karen’s ruining weddings as a joke and a warning from her words. Yeah. So she said it as like a warning. What? So basically saying, if you don’t do what I say, I can ruin your wedding. Oh gosh. That is so mean. Did you see there was this thing that went viral.

Someone just tagged me in on TikTok. This girl shared a picture or like a video of all her invitations in a bucket of dirty water and said, thanks to my mother-in-law, oh wait, no, I didn’t see that they were already, or they were, the water was dirty because it was all the ink. She already had pre-addressed all these invitations in envelopes, and the mother-in-law threw them in water because they weren’t what she wanted, or she didn’t want the wedding to happen.

It was like going viral on TikTok. And people were like, can you make a story about this? And I was like, let me gather some thoughts. 

 

Kate Gray: That’s terrible. Oh my gosh, that is so awful.

Christa Innis: Do you, that is so awful. Is that someone that just can’t deal with their emotions or can’t communicate, or has or hasn’t been told? No, maybe.

Kate Gray: Yeah. So the like term is enmeshment. They’re enmeshed, which means they’re fused, like, so, um, when it comes to relationships, there’s only one truth. Like there’s right or wrong, and both people have to see it that way. Mm. Whereas, so they need to learn what’s called differentiation. Like, hey, my kid is their own person.

They’re making their own choices and their own life. And it doesn’t have to be the same as what I would do.

Christa Innis: Mm. 

Kate Gray: Or I don’t have to approve. They have full autonomy and agency to do what they need to do. Mm-hmm. And so there’s definitely a component of not being able to regulate emotionally. There’s the component of, of being, um, not really having boundaries.

You know, there’s, there’s a lot. I mean, not, again, not to pathologize people and ’cause I don’t know all the context behind these things, but definitely parents that get upset at their children’s decisions, there is a level of enmeshment between them.

Christa Innis: Interesting. Wow. I don’t know how some of these people get through.

Like, I know position, I just can’t. Imagine being treated that way.

Kate Gray: Yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Um, awesome. Okay, well that’s all I have for, oh my gosh, thank you so much for coming on. It was so great chatting with you and hearing a different perspective on some of these things that we see.

Kate Gray: Thank you for having me. This was really fun and different.

Like it’s not, I normally just, I talk about this stuff on such, in such a serious way, you know, and so this was really light and fun. I really enjoyed it. Oh, good. Thank you again. Yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Well, can you tell everyone again where they can follow you, find your content, and then what kind of things you’re working on and what kind of things you share?

Kate Gray: Yeah. So, um, you can find me on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube under the handle codependency. Kate, KATE. Um, what am I working on? I don’t know. I’m just like having fun posting and, um, just still learning about my community and what the needs are and just doing fun things like this. I did start a podcast, it’s called The Gray Area.

Christa Innis: Oh, fun. Where?

Kate Gray: Yeah, where like, so I post a lot of educational stuff and my podcast is um, where I just elaborate. It’s just like long form. I literally just started it and I am doing it just by myself and I, I’ve been like, I didn’t realize I could yap the way I do. I’ve literally like for 45 minutes to an hour can just like talk about something.

I had no idea. I’ve always been curious, like I wonder if I could just go. Like how long I would talk. Yeah. And anyway, so, um, that’s on my profile. You’re sign up now? I’m literally, yeah. Um, so that’s what I’m doing. Yeah. Now.

Christa Innis: Awesome. Well, very cool. I feel like a lot of times our, our content can like cross over, like you can be like the more, more serious

Kate Gray: Yes.

Christa Innis: Um, and educational for Yes. I like education. Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like a lot of people have que, you know, they hear these stories and they have questions about it, or, um, brides will reach out and be like, this is what I’m currently dealing with and I, I can’t deal with it from, or I can give advice from a professional standpoint.

I just can say like, this is what I’ve seen in these stories. Yes. Yeah. So,

Kate Gray: um, well, and that’s valid too, your experience with these stories. So. Not to like think that, um, you have to have formal training to be able to answer. But yeah, I’m always happy to provide the educational component because there people, from what I’ve learned, like are shocked to find out these things have names and there’s, these are issues, you know, I’ll post a video about this and people are like, oh my gosh, this is my exact situation.

And there’s, you know, 10,000 other people that feel the same way. And it’s just so family systems is super fun to educate people about and it can be very validating for people struggling in these situations.

Christa Innis: Yeah. I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about social media is that we’re able to connect on those things like, yeah.

Like I saw someone say once like, oh, my algorithm algorithm’s spot on. ’cause it’ll be like a video about like someone with like a D, H, D and anxiety and you’re like, oh my gosh, wait, I have those things. Wait, I do those things. Or it just allows you to connect and see that you’re not alone in something or someone totally in the situation.

And,

Kate Gray: um, it’s so valid. It can be such a relief and so validating for people that don’t have access to therapy or like support, extra support like that. I literally got a message from someone yesterday from like Gambia Africa. Wow. And they’re like, yeah, we don’t have access to therapy here, so I really appreciate your content.

I’m like, oh my God, this is so cool.

Christa Innis: I didn’t know. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, there’s such a. I think, I think our world’s getting more accepting of therapy and like talking about it being like, Hey, yes, I see I go to therapy and I, but like that wasn’t always the case. Right. And I’m sure you saw too, it was more of like a hush hush thing like, oh, I go to therapy.

Mm-hmm. Like mm-hmm. You are worried about what people are gonna think about you. Mm-hmm. And so I think for those that are still kind of like scared of therapy or like they don’t know if they wanna do it, social media’s a great way of kind of start like opening that door being like, it really is, wait, this is really, this is helpful.

Oh, this is cool. Yeah. Wait, I can talk to someone and like, like get empowered or learn

Kate Gray: about myself or, yeah. That’s great. Like be listened to and just even explore my own thoughts. Like I, I just think that therapy all it is, is just creating space for you to kind of come out and learn about yourself, like you said.

So

Christa Innis: yeah,

Kate Gray: it’s great. Yeah.

Christa Innis: Yeah. Love that. Awesome. Well thank you again for coming on. I had a great time chatting with you. Me too. Thanks again.

Kate Gray: Thanks.

by Christa Innis

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